Fairfax County Ad Hoc Police Commission

[KevinB]

I don't doubt it but honestly, is it going to stop? The drug war has been going on since the 70's.

VASTLY higher penalties for distribution etc.

Make it more of a war, targeted killings on senior level criminal organizations. I could win the war on drugs in about 30 days, the question is whether or not it is acceptable to the populace?

[TCinVA]

I'm all for taking a hard look at what we're willing to use laws to enforce. Key bit there is "force"...we are putting people in uniforms and handing them weapons with the expectation that they will use force on people. It would behoove us as a society to ensure to do some soul searching on exactly what things we are willing to use lethal force to enforce because every time a police officer makes contact with someone in an enforcement capacity there is the possibility of using significant force.

People were ticked off that Eric Garner ended up in a fight with the police over a loose cigarette...but a lot of the same people complaining about that supported the ridiculous tax scheme on cigarettes in NYC that made it possible for him to sell loose cigarettes on the street. Because the city and state wanted revenue, the police and the force they bring with them were put on a collision path with Eric Garner.

If we're not willing to see people (police and suspects) get killed, maimed, and injured over something then there doesn't need to be a law against it. Sadly I don't think this is going to happen. As a society we will likely proceed on with our usual cognitive dissonance of insisting that the police "do something" about this thing "we" don't like and then complaining when they actually take the bait and legitimately do something.

[KevinB]

If we're not willing to see people (police and suspects) get killed, maimed, and injured over something then there doesn't need to be a law against it. Sadly I don't think this is going to happen. As a society we will likely proceed on with our usual cognitive dissonance of insisting that the police "do something" about this thing "we" don't like and then complaining when they actually take the bait and legitimately do something.

Dude, you are remarkably on point today

I believe it is a failure on society to accept responsibility for our own actions - "WE" want laws, but "WE" don't want to suffer some affects of those.

[cclaxton]

A couple of things Cody that you may want to pass on or think about. Things like "no knock warrants" are a very valuable tool that has saved the lives of countless officers as well as criminals. It is simply a "tactic" or a tool and like any of these things can be either improperly utilized or used improperly. Either removing the option, or having it dictated by political folks is as bad or worse than being improperly utilized by officers. Simply saying "you cannot do no knock warrants" is the wrong (but easy) answer and will result in injuries or death to officers, suspects, or both. The reality is that there are proven matrix systems out there that are well tested to avoid over or improper use of things like no knock warrants and should be utilized. These provide accountability and will often create some additional hard work to utilize a no knock warrant.....which tends to eliminate much of the abuses and have tactical teams be more creative with using other means to serve warrants or be very justified in using the no knocks.

Two simple things we did was require an arrest rather than search warrant for use of SWAT for narcotics warrants and use of the LAPD matrix for all swat warrants. This solved a ton of issues and made for far better tactics that were easily defensible and protected both the officers and public from what are often poor management decisions.

I am also curious in the Geer case about accountability of both police management and the county government officials. Easy to have a single officer take the heat for a incident like this, but there are usually some big red flags of very poor decision making before the shot was fired from both management and the political officials that should have some accountability. I don't care if it is military, law enforcement, business, or a host of other occupations, the primary job of leadership is the proper training and preparation of their sub ordinate and employees to be properly selected and well trained for the function they are tasked with.

Darryl,
I don't advocate removing no-knock entries, BUT there have been dozens of entries into the wrong address or when the bad guy/girl wasn't there and too many innocent occupants killed...at least in Fairfax County. When you combine the poor muzzle control with no-knocks at the wrong address...that is just WRONG is so many ways. What I have been advocating is that the address for a no-knock warrant be independently verified by a special operations group. Right now the Detectives just say: "this address" and they go. That needs to be triple-checked. Same for SWAT. Then a citizens panel would review these operations and provide feedback to the Police and the Board of Supervisors to get police to change their behavior. Right now they are not questioned...by anyone.

Bad leadership is a big problem in Fairfax County Police Dept. Lack of transparency, and a history of protecting police from any prosecution by the Commonwealth Attorney and the Chief have led to a culture of entitlement to being shielded from prosecution. Sure, some cops have been charged with theft or fraud, but those were generally after they were caught at it, and the charges were often settled for way less than a civilian would have received. Again, a sense of entitlement.

In the Greer case, I think this comes down to a training issue for both beat cops and SWAT. We have another incident recently where a guy was sleeping in a temporary apartment, came home drunk one night and left the door cracked. A neighbor called the cops and, without checking with the landlord, entered the apartment and his bedroom and every cop pointed the muzzle of their gun at the occupants HEAD as they entered the room. The guy was an Army veteran who saw action overseas and was appalled at the poor judgement used. There was no indication he was armed or dangerous. See Here for this account: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...338_story.html

Cody

[cclaxton]

Have you considered agitating for less drug related warrants?

That's a great idea...I will add that to the list. Although we are having a upsurge in heroin use around here.
Cody

[cclaxton]

How do you set a "quota" for this? Now if you want to say "we don't care about dope anymore" that is fine, but I don't get how you would set a criteria. No matter what you did, it would be somehow "unfair" to someone. In all honesty it would be FAR better for the officers as an excuse to not work dope in low income areas and only chase "Majors" likely passing through or those that are affecting the neighborhoods occupied by those with political clout, but I am sure some folks outside the department would take issue with that......or.....maybe not and that is what the public wants which I am actually okay with at this point in the mess.

What about the Board of Supervisors saying that marijuana will be the LOWEST priority for Law Enforcement, and no-knocks and SWAT will not be used for weed? I have heard a number of cops say that the morality of shooting someone over a bag or even a couple pounds of weed is questionable. I know one who resigned over it.
Cody

[TCinVA]

That's a great idea...I will add that to the list. Although we are having a upsurge in heroin use around here.
Cody

I find that a lot of people's sympathy for tweakers is significantly diminished once a tweaker breaks into their property and steals their stuff.

[cclaxton]

Dude, you are remarkably on point today

I believe it is a failure on society to accept responsibility for our own actions - "WE" want laws, but "WE" don't want to suffer some affects of those.

Kevin,
We want laws, and WE are willing to suffer the affects, but WE are turning our country into a police-state...and THAT we don't want. The war on drugs is a primary component, and this should all move to drug courts and decriminalization.
Cody

[cclaxton]

I find that a lot of people's sympathy for tweakers is significantly diminished once a tweaker breaks into their property and steals their stuff.

Agreed, but smoking weed and breaking into a home are clearly two separate crimes. There are plenty who never do the latter.
Cody

[cclaxton]

Of course it's not going to stop. But decriminalizing drugs would make it grow exponentially. Personally I don't care to turn our society into a place where I have to live in a fortified compound with broken glass cemented into the top of my wall.

How much personal experience do you have with people who have chronic drug problems? People whose lives revolve around drugs and are unable to function?

Putting the substantial criminal effects aside, if you're lucky enough not to have that experience, check out the A&E TV series intervention to give you an idea of the havoc drugs wreak on families.

This was the exact same argument made to pass the Amendment to ban alcohol in the United States. Look how that turned out. We should learn our lessons from that debacle. We do have alcoholics but we don't have people murdering people over sale and distribution of it.
Cody