Oh yes indeed, I believe he has quite a bit of information about this."I think I see our own GJM's name on the scores for this club with the RO. Maybe he has the backstory?"
Oh yes indeed, I believe he has quite a bit of information about this."I think I see our own GJM's name on the scores for this club with the RO. Maybe he has the backstory?"
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
If this was a club level match, there's a better than even chance that the RO has no creds to pull. Most likely he was just a volunteer running the timer. RO training and certification is only required at major matches.Originally Posted by ToddG
When I did my NROI training back a million years ago, one of the things that they emphasized is that the RO should be the last man off the stage. It's not a rule (a rule that you can't enforce is just advice) but it is a good habit to maintain when you're running a timer. Failing to do this was probably the first link in this incident.
Last edited by Chris Rhines; 03-23-2015 at 06:32 AM.
-C
My blog: The Way of the Multigun
I'm not that wild about elaborate stages with props that so channel visibility myself.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
That's mainly because 'Cease fire!' is not used as a range command in USPSA. The equivalent command is 'Stop!', which was called by several people.
-C
My blog: The Way of the Multigun
I haven't done USPSA RO school, and I let my IDPA SO creds lapse when they started requiring new certs, but I always felt like this should be addressed better.
IOM, ideally the RO/SO doesn't leave the shooting position. The Score Keeper (SK) should also be an RO/SO and should be the one walking, scoring, and sweeping up the stragglers.
I think USPSA may have codified this a little more as almost every USPSA match I've attended has had the RO walking the targets hollering out the scores to the SK.
Something else that I've always thought would help, in both games, is to require people do X matches as an SK prior to being allowed to become an RO/SO. Of course, this assumes a willing volunteer pool, which seems to be dwindling more each year.
^^^This.
"Gettin' everybody to love me is a full time job..." - Kenny Powers
Gotcha. Appreciate that my perspective is as a prospective USPSA shooter, with 0 experience.
I get that the sport has a great safety record, and that this is maybe a case of a couple of individuals that need to take personal responsibility for their actions. But I guess I'm saying that it seems odd that one would not look at the incident in it's entirety, not to assign blame/extract a sanction, but to ensure it never happens again.
Say I'm on the BOD at my gun club, and a USPSA event is proposed. The night before the BOD meeting I see this video. The following questions might come up:
How is it that participants are allowed to pick up brass between competitors? (Shouldn't this wait until the match is over?)
Why did the RO think the range was clear? (What steps in the rulebook were missed to allow this to happen? Are there any steps in the rulebook?)
What training / rules do the participants receive on the day from USPSA / the MD so that they know not to go forward of the line during a run?
Again, not trying to point fingers or just bash the participants, the MD, the club, or USPSA. I'm just saying that while a top to bottom review of this incident might be a PITA, it is far far preferable than having someone shot or killed.
Someone may want his 9mm brass back, but not want it mixed with the brass of the guy that was shooting 9mm (Open) Major.
FWIW: When I shoot matches, I don't save my brass.
What a moron RO. I've had this happen before where we've had to stop a call to make ready due to people downrange. I've never had a problem getting my sorry ass to CHECK THE COURSE before letting someone proceed.
Semper Gumby, Always Flexible
This video makes me even more glad than usual that my club makes it very clear in their rules that brass is to be left for those who help tear down stages after the match is over. It makes this potential safety issue impossible, makes the match run more smoothly because you're never waiting for "brass rats" to clear the range before the next shooter can go, and it means that as somebody who always helps with teardown, I go home with 2-3x as much brass as I shot almost every time.
Of course it's still important to verify that everybody who's pasting targets is clear, but that's usually not an issue, as all of us usually clear within a few seconds of the score keeper saying "scoring complete."
Regarding the video itself, I'm surprised that given that the RO laziness/ineptitude in question had already happened:
a) the guy downrange didn't hear the "load and make ready" and yell stop
b) when the shooter started shooting, he didn't hit the deck immediately while yelling stop
If I was the shooter, I'd be mega pissed at both the brass rat *and* the RO. The brass rat shouldn't have been there, and the RO should have ensured that the range was clear before giving the make ready command. Those two people put the shooter at risk of seriously injuring or killing the brass rat, and of course that puts the whole sport at risk. Thankfully nobody was actually harmed, but those two need a serious talking to, and then they both need to go to their rooms and think about what they've done.
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