Morality of carrying a gun in an NPE

[Byron]

OK, David. Move those goalposts as much as you'd like.

I am hard pressed to believe that you really need me to define the material damage of receiving a "less effective wire" than the one you paid for.

I don't have any interest in going round and round when you won't own your arguments. You keep drawing a false equivalence between carrying against policy vs acts of outright financial fraud (first stealing from retirement accounts, then bait-and-switch on building materials). Now you're saying it's irrelevant that your equivalence doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I'll save any further keystrokes.

[Mr_White]

I have nothing against those who are willing to take a stand against what they feel are unjust acts. I find that very different from pretending to accept those rules and laws as appropriate in order to get some money.

How do you feel your view comports with pragmatism?

[Chuck Haggard]

If Americans didn't have a history of blatantly ignoring unjust gun laws made by the powers that be would there even be an United States of America now?

[David Armstrong]

OK, David. Move those goalposts as much as you'd like.

Not moving a thing, just pointing out the inconsistencies of your argument.

I am hard pressed to believe that you really need me to define the material damage of receiving a "less effective wire" than the one you paid for.

Again, if you don't know it or notice it then hard to argue a harm, right? Isn't that what you have been arguing to justify carrying a firearm while at work? No one knows, no one notices, it doesn't hurt anything, so it is OK?

[quote]I don't have any interest in going round and round when you won't own your arguments. [/quote[
Then don't. I always find it strange when folks want to argue they do not want to do exactly what they are doing.

You keep drawing a false equivalence between carrying against policy vs acts of outright financial fraud (first stealing from retirement accounts, then bait-and-switch on building materials). Now you're saying it's irrelevant that your equivalence doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I don't feel there is a false equivalency as it relates to the point I am discussing. If you do, so be it. Again, nobody forces anyone to engage in debate on the internet, AFAIK. But if one chooses to do so one should at least recognize the other party as being just as sincere and honest as one expects others to recognize in them. I tend to present my positions following standard rules of logic, debate and argumentation. If others don't want to do that......

[Peally]

(@Chuck) Negative Ghost Rider

[David Armstrong]

How do you feel your view comports with pragmatism?

Pragmatism as a philosophical view or a political view?

[David Armstrong]

If Americans didn't have a history of blatantly ignoring unjust gun laws made by the powers that be would there even be an United States of America now?

I don't think it was nearly as much "ignoring" as it was directly challenging, which is kind of the point I'm trying to make. If we just ignore it, if we tacitly accept it through pretense and hiding, there is no need or impulse to fuel change.

[GardoneVT]

The reason so many of those laws and rules have been changed is because some had the courage of their convictions and actually stood up to challenge them, rather than hiding their beliefs and pretending to support them.

Wrong.

The reason those rules have been challenged and changed is because a series of circumstances aligned to make it possible. Courage alone won't do it; you also need most of society and many institutions to back your viewpoint.The alignment of all of the above is a VERY rare thing; and even then you can end up in a pine box for your trouble, and your movement corrupted anyways.I can't speak for Dr King, but if he were alive today he'd be likely as displeased with the black victimhood culture of "Hands Up Don't Shoot" as he was with the racist one he fought to end.

In the meantime, the thugs of the world will continue their business of evil .A 9mm Glock illegally possessed goes a lot farther in defending against the latter at 2AM then lofty ideals of social justice.


Note- changing the mindset of people en masse to promote the common carry of deadly weapons will always be a hard sell in civilized times.Unless zombies are roaming the streets-or its painfully obvious law enforcement cannot provide even the barest security due to budget or rural spaces- its difficult to sell the idea of "go forth armed" to ordinary people.

Racial equality, gay marriage, and so forth are philosophical beliefs which anyone can access and speak to-and its a rare disturbed individual who thinks those philosophies can personally injure or kill them and their families.

Firearms are VERY tangible things, and can kill at the flick of a finger.The very existence of that kind of power and the concomitant responsibility is what scares the Average Joe-what IF the dumbest person they know carries a gun ? Even we gnash our teeth at the acts of stupidity gun owners currently indulge in. The unwashed think "guns can hurt me and mine and there's a lot of idiots out there, so lock that shit up and make sure only the vetted and the certified can carry."

Good luck challenging that attitude.

[Captain]

I have nothing against those who are willing to take a stand against what they feel are unjust acts. I find that very different from pretending to accept those rules and laws as appropriate in order to get some money.

David, this whole thing started because of my original post. Let me say this - there is no way I could work for a company that is truly utilizing my talent and skillset while justly compensating me for it if I didn't "pretend to accept those rules [not laws] as appropriate in order to get some [quite a bit actually - enough to actually provide for my family's future] money." There just isn't a company out there that has a different policy that would actually employee me doing what I do. The only exception is the niche that I've been in for the past 10 years in which my family has made great sacrifices for me to remain underpaid while I doing what I do. I am at a point in my life and career where I have to make some changes to better provide for them and it's either stop carrying a gun (not going to happen due to my past experiences) or keep making half or less than what I'm worth. Instead I chose the third option - I take the position and follow all the rules that I feel they have a right to actually impose and I will ignore the ones that they have no moral standing to make or try to enforce. I'm a big boy, wearing my big boy pants, and if I'm caught, it'll be because I've saved my life or that of my coworkers and if I get fired for that, i can live with it.

[Chuck Haggard]

I'm glad that many people over the years haven't exactly followed the rules, when those rules were unjust, even if they were sneaky about it.

This guy for example; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Schindler