What is an NPE?

[Byron]

I align with what Rob and SLG state: that different levels exist for different people, and that I have no interest in judging people or playing the "My NPE is way more NP that your NPE" game.

I think it's perfectly valid for one guy to set the threshold at "job loss" where another might set it at "beheading." I realize that covers a huge spectrum, and therefore makes the term slightly less useful than if it had a hard definition. But I still think it's a useful term for narrowing down the discussion... the same way we might all have different definitions of a "trunk gun," but at least it gets us closer to a better-defined discussion.

[psalms144.1]

No one here yet, but I think some people get all worked up over the whole NPE thing, as if their reality is somehow more real than the other guy's.

I've carried in places where they would probably keep me in jail for a long time if I was caught. Other places where they would want to cut my head off. A few times in a place where I might be fired, or more likely get in a bunch of trouble, maybe even legal trouble. I consider all of them to be NPE's, and don't look down on the guy who has to deal with any of them.

The final example I'll give is that there are places where I can carry, where almost no one else can. Being seen with a gun would be VERY embarrassing, and might lead to a small amount of professional trouble, but I carry there as I always do, with no extra concessions. I don't consider that to be an NPE, though it is for most people.

edited to add, my recommendations on the other thread were not universal, just based on the OP's office NPE requirements. When I carried in places where beheading or jail was likely, no one was going to ever hug me, so the needs were different.

I concur with the above. I've frequently traveled armed in NPEs, to include one place where possession of a weapon meant a long stay in a REALLY REALLY nasty cell (unless the Embassy could put the fix in quick). I've also been to a "go to jail" NPE where I wore Level IV plates over IIIA soft armor under an untucked "casual" shirt, and had a mountaineering rucksack with a Mk18 in it over one shoulder at all times. I was working a protection detail at the time, and the HN, for all their "NPE" laws, gave a wink and a nod at me and mine for the duration. I have great memories of arriving at the military air terminal, where everyone "except one party member" had to go through magnetometers. That meant that I was the last guy off the plane, and came off (dressed as above) with additional rucks full of armor, commo, weapons and ammo for the rest of the detail. I'm not small to start with, but all of this must have made our hosts giggle at the Michelen Man "sneaking" into their country... The games we play.

Having said all that, I'm in Federal LE, so my NPEs are limited to the Hoover Dam, the WTC Memorial, Federal Courthouses, and "Special Weapons" facilities in CONUS (have frequently carried inside the WH, with USSS permission, of course). For a normal citizen, my definition of NPE is ANYWHERE where being caught out would result in arrest or termination of employment.

And +1 to all those who correctly identify that even a "PE" can become an "NPE" if you're around a bunch of huggers or general tom foolery that involves physical contact...

Regards,

Kevin

[okie john]

I align with what Rob and SLG state: that different levels exist for different people, and that I have no interest in judging people or playing the "My NPE is way more NP that your NPE" game.

I think it's perfectly valid for one guy to set the threshold at "job loss" where another might set it at "beheading." I realize that covers a huge spectrum, and therefore makes the term slightly less useful than if it had a hard definition. But I still think it's a useful term for narrowing down the discussion... the same way we might all have different definitions of a "trunk gun," but at least it gets us closer to a better-defined discussion.

There's also the issue of dwell time. The longer you're in an NPE, the more chance there is that you'll get busted. Passing through an NPE a few times every week/month presents a very different set of problems than spending 40-60 hours in one with the same people every week.


Okie John

[Byron]

There's also the issue of dwell time.

Excellent point.



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[ToddG]

I'd agree with the general statement that one man's NPE is not necessarily another's. I've seen some well known instructors suddenly jump from the "I was SpecOps to I was most qualified with a carbine" to "I was SpecOps so I was most qualified with a pistol in NPE." The military's idea of a "NPE" is a lot different than what most private citizens deal with... and I don't mean that in favor of the typical SpecOps guy.

For most private citizens, NPE means simply:

• that there are significant life-changing consequences to the method in which they carry a firearm or other weapon;
• this is usually in an everyday manner for months or years at a time;
• in an environment where the same people will see them day after day;
• where those people will see them close up, moving around, lifting things, standing, sitting, walking, shaking hands, eating, etc.;
• where observers will have lots of casual time to see changes or oddities over time rather than making short, focussed assessments.

The guy who had to walk casually down Bakalakadaka Street while dressed up to blend in with the locals isn't the same as the guy who has to wear a suit in a business environment every day for 20 years.

The stakes for the first guy were a lot higher (death); the odds for the second guy are a lot higher.

[xmanhockey7]

I agree with the soft and hard NPE. Some mean serious jail time or death, others mean being asked to leave and a lot in-between. I found this thread recently and found it very interesting.

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...ve-Environment

[GardoneVT]

Let us not forget the "social NPE". If youre busted carrying here no one with a badge and handcuffs necessarily will arrest you, but permanent damage to important relationships will take place.

Think direct/extended family who are anti and ban carry in their homes ,or are so rabidly anti they'd turn into a pillar of salt if they knew visitors were armed. If the mother-in-law finds out youre armed no one gets locked up, but your spouse wont be happy and repeat invites are unlikely.Ditto spouses who dislike firearms themselves.Yes I know-"Dont date antis"-but many people have been exposed negatively to firearms, especially females. One case was of a girl who hated guns-not because of politics, but because some nimrod ex pointed a revolver at her head as a joke when she was in high school.I cant really fault her for thinking "anti-gun" after that shining example of negligent idiocy.It would thus be deleterious to show her my armed status until some degree of rapport had been established;again no one goes to jail, but if she discovered my armed status the relationship is likely over.

Then theres the workplace.Even if a company didnt ban carry by policy, its probably not a good idea politically to make it common knowledge one routinely carries.Lots of administrators and decision makers are anti in charachter even in 'flyover country'. People who offend the Powers That Be tend to be laid off faster, promoted slower, and assigned marginal work . Once again, no one is necessarily arrested if "made" ; but being fired or booted for some contrived reason by an anti gun boss still sucks just the same.

[JDM]

I can't imagine being socially damaged by carrying a gun.

You don't like me because I'm armed?

Neat!

A social NPE isn't something I would ever worry about.

[ford.304]

A social NPE isn't something I would ever worry about.

Not so easy when the person is your mother-in-law's entire family. I'm pretty sure I'd be asked to never come to another family gathering again if I came armed and they found out. Now, that might be a plus for *some* people, but I like my in-laws (and my wife).

Similarly, it's a lot of family hassle if your kid can't play on their soccer team because you scared all of the soccer moms. Do you want to drag your family through that? Problem like that made the news a while ago - I'm sure her kids were super happy about that.

Is it as bad as losing your job or doing jail time? No, but it's something we'd all probably rather avoid. There are social times when you can just say "ok, I won't be friends with those people." Other times that choice is a bit harder.

[Suvorov]

Talk about "one man's NPE."

Hows this for messed up? I regularly carry legally in one of the most heavily Non Permissive Environments in the nation but a simple walk around the block with the dog at night will potentially end my career.

Why do I put up with this governmental psychosis????