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Thread: If you were going to run 10k carrying rifle, pistol, ammo, how would you do it?

  1. #491
    Member NGCSUGrad09's Avatar
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    Here is my AAR of the Carolina Run and Gun from earlier this month. Sorry for the long length, but it was an event worth covering well.

    http://practicalsharpshooter.com/aar...un-and-gun-8k/

  2. #492
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    Nice write up. There were some tough competitors there so 2nd place is oustanding.

    Try to make a road trip to OK in January, it's always a big time.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  3. #493
    New Member schüler's Avatar
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    Enjoyed the read, congrats on the suppressor win!
    Quote Originally Posted by NGCSUGrad09 View Post
    Here is my AAR of the Carolina Run and Gun from earlier this month. Sorry for the long length, but it was an event worth covering well.

    http://practicalsharpshooter.com/aar...un-and-gun-8k/

  4. #494
    Great job at Carolina! And thanks for letting us check out the ATACR!

    It was an awesome match. Definitely the best shooting challenge I've seen at an RNG.

    If someone could marry the distance/terrain of the Oklahoma 20k with the stage design of Carolina we'd have one hell of a match.

    I went into this one completely unprepared (maybe a little over confident) and got my butt handed to me. I ran alright but shot terribly.

    The Legion 10k at Rockcastle is next weekend and I hope to redeem myself, although I'm getting more than a little nervous about it with the high round count and blind stages.

  5. #495
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    Finally got to do one of these - the WTF Biathlon near Waco, TX! What an awesome experience. Due to the massive amount of rains and flooding we’ve had in Texas, though, the event course was a mud-slogged mess. I won’t belabor anyone with a description of all the stages, as that should already be on their website (wtfbiathlon.com). Instead, I’ll try to post what I learned from the experience in the hopes it may help others wanting to try it, or at least wanting to try a different one under similar wet and muddy conditions.

    Despite training carrying a backpack with 15-20 lbs, doing weights, push-ups and pullups and losing about 10 lbs of body weight in the process, I still wasn’t prepared! It was much harder than I thought it was going to be. Part of what I think added to my difficulty was that I had trained by jogging with 15-20 lbs of weight in a backpack. I was able to get up to 6 to 7 miles of jogging with the extra weight, even training in the rain sometimes. But for the event, I also used a battle belt with loaded mags and a pistol, with extra ammo, water and mags etc., to be carried in the backpack. I never trained with the battle belt fully loaded fearing neighbors or other folks would call the cops about a crazy guy running around with all that stuff on. Running with the loaded battle belt threw off my stride and dug a bit into my hips, making my run effort more difficult.

    I completely failed the obstacle at the first stage. First obstacle required one to climb a forward slanting, A-framed, 8 to 10 ft chain link fence. Easy enough, I thought. I’ve climbed chain linked fences before. All the other competitors before me at the stage easily did it. I also trained doing pull ups with added weight on my back. Even so, I never could get over the fence! My “running” Garmont boots were slipping from the mud and could never get a foot hold or “ toe” hold in the chain link. So although I was able to get up to the top using arm strength, I couldn’t use leg strength to get up far enough to be able to swing my body up and over, especially with the weight of all my gear. Pride got the better of me, as I kept trying and trying, to no avail and exhausting me until I finally gave up and asked to take a time penalty. By then, I had used up too much time and only had little time to try to complete the shooting part of the stage, which I also failed to do. I also managed to cut my finger on the fence somehow because I was bleeding all over the place, except at the time I couldn’t tell from where. I brought a rag to wipe clean the scope and rifle in case of a mud smear, so I used that to wipe off the blood. I should’ve brought a small IFAK, though, as I later got the cut dirty with mud and muddy water throughout the remainder of the event. Lessons learned.

    One of the obstacles right before stage 3 required crawling through a corrugated culvert. I had put on some cheap elbow and knee athletic wrap/braces, which worked great for this obstacle. Due to all the mud in the culvert, I tried my best to keep the muzzle free from getting a mud clot in the muzzle. I had placed a condom over it before I started, but later lost it somewhere along the course. Sure enough, I still managed to get some mud in the muzzle break cage. There were so many puddles around, though, I was able to clean most of it off in one of them. If there’s ever a next time, I’ll need to figure out what I can place over the muzzle that won’t fall off.

    After the muddy culvert obstacle came the first rifle stage. While waiting at the stage, I tried to take off my slinged rifle to get to my backpack holding a cleaning rod. I was hoping to clean out or at least push out any mud that might’ve gotten in the bore. But the sling got caught in the ear plug cord around the back of my neck, pulling them off. And in so doing, the plugs got real dirty with all the mud I managed to accumulate on my body. Hoping to wipe it off with the same rag I used to wipe off the blood earlier, I discovered the rag was now a wet, muddy mess. So I pulled out some extra foam plugs I had in my pack, the expanding kind you roll in your fingers to then place in your ear canal. Except my hands and fingers were all muddy, even though I had been wearing gloves, and there was no clean, dry piece of clothing left for me to wipe off my hands. So I just stuck the dirty foam plugs in my ears and hoped for the best. What I should’ve done was place the rag in a ziploc type plastic bag and maybe pack some extra diaper wipes in a plastic bag, too. Another lesson learned when dealing with wet, muddy conditions.

    Stage 5 required one to climb a tree and get in position to make some long distance shots. I began climbing and later discovered I climbed from the wrong side of the tree, making it difficult, if not impossible, to get into the “seated” position in the tree (a sawed off branch stump). By then I was semi dangling with all my gear, unnecessarily expending more energy and getting even more tired. I had to climb halfway down and start over again on the other side of the tree. By then, I used up too much time and couldn’t finish the stage within the allotted 3 minute time frame. What I should’ve done is take a little time before hand to study the tree and the best way to get to the seated position instead of just climbing straight up at the “go” command. Another lesson learned.

    The last obstacle had us carry some super heavy jugs about 30 or so yards, maybe longer? I had practiced with carrying 45 lb dumbbells about 15 yards, not realizing the jugs’ actual weight and distance to carry. Maybe because I was already exhausted and carrying all my gear, but the jugs felt way heavier than 45 lbs. So for next time, I’ll practice with heavier dumbbells at longer distances.

    The gear I used worked well for the most part, but there were a few minor mishaps. I had built a lower Stag Arms AR paired with a fully assembled Stag upper with a chrome-lined 16” 1:7 barrel. I installed a Burris’s TAC 30 1-4x optic and used Hornady ELD Match 73 gr .223. It’s the first and only AR I’ve ever shot, and I was surprised at how well it did despite how dirty and muddy it got and my inexperience with rifle shooting in general. My practice range only goes out to 200 yards, but I was able to hit the 500 yard gong twice, furthest I’ve ever shot in my life, and all with fogged up eye pro and mud-smeared optics I had to wipe off with a dirty finger. Can’t say enough about this setup!

    I used a Blue Force Gear unpadded VCAS sling. It’s strong and held up well while dragging it across the steel culvert. But the mud and puddles I crawled through also got the adjustable tab mechanism wet and muddy, making it difficult to slide up and down to adjust. Not sure what I could’ve done to prevent that from happening or if a different type or brand of adjustable sling would’ve worked better under those conditions.

    For the pistol I used a Glock 34 and Fiochi 115 gr ammo. As a relative newbie to the shooting sports, my handgun skills are poor, and the results showed at every pistol stage. I timed out at every stage pistol stage. I know I need lots more practice, but even though I missed a lot, I still had fun trying!

    I used a surplus Army holster for the Glock. Not sure what it’s proper designation is, but it’s supposed to work for 1911s and Beretta 92FS fullsized guns. I read elsewhere Glock 34s also fit. It almost completely covers the whole pistol with its cover flap, which is what I wanted to protect it from the mud. In that regard, it worked really well. The Glock was surprisingly mud-free for the most part. One of its flaws, though, is the difficulty in threading it through my belt, a nylon 1.5” Uncle Mike’s belt with the metal buckle and velcro. When the belt is dry, it’s a little hard threading it through, but once wet and muddy, I guess the moisture and mud tend to slightly thicken the belt even more, making it impossible to thread through again. Reason I had to re-thread it is its other flaw. When sitting in the car stage, the metal clasps I had threaded through the belt somehow came undone, despite how difficult it is to unhook them by hand. Not sure how that happened, but definitely something to consider for next time there may be a stage where I have to draw while sitting in a car.

    I also used an HSG battle belt with one of those 1.75” nylon inner belts with a cobra buckle. They worked great and held up to me scraping them across 10 to 20 yards of corrugated steel while crawling through the mud-filled culvert. On the battle belt I had a Condor ammo pouch with the little bungee cords that holds 3 30-round pmags on one side a cheap, Academy brand nylon and velcro dual pistol mag holder on the other side. They all got drug through the steel culvert and mud and held up great.

    My backpack was a relatively small, Drago brand one from Academy’s “tactical bag” aisle near its firearm section. I also have a Hill People Gear Tarahumara pack I thought of using. It’s a great pack and lighter than the Drago backpack. But for whatever reason, I can’t seem to get it to fit comfortably while running with 20 lbs in it. The straps attaching to the shoulder harness kept loosening while bouncing up and down on my back with the added weight. It also doesn’t have a waist belt, which the Drago pack has, which would probably help keep it from bouncing along my lower back while running. I’ve thought of trying to jerry-rig a makeshift waist belt for it, but just haven’t gotten around to it. But for less than half the price, the Drago pack worked great and held up to the muddy mess I put it through, even if it was made in China.

    In the pack, I carried extra ammo loose in some bags (think I had way too much weighing me down) and two bottles of water. With temps in the 60’s and overcast, heat stroke wasn’t a concern. But I probably should’ve carried much less ammo and maybe 2 more bottles of water.

    One last thing. We were handed our own stopwatches and timecards connected to the stopwatch cord with a metal clip. Not sure when and where, but somewhere before stage 3 I lost my timecard. I should’ve placed it in my back pocket or somewhere else safer - another lesson learned. Not sure what my actual time was, considering the wait times at the stages, but being my first one with the only goal of finishing it, I’m just glad I finally did one of these. Took me about 4 hours and 10 minutes total to complete, minus whatever my wait times were. It was hard as heck and I was glad to have finally crossed the finish line, but I’m hooked and already thinking about next year!

  6. #496
    Equin, That's a great write up! Glad you were able to finally go to one. Sounds like you enjoyed yourself and learned a lot along the way. I think that's the whole point of these races: challenge yourself, have some fun, and learn what does and doesn't work.

    At my first RnG I carried a ton of stuff. The concept of 6-7 miles seemed a lot farther than it really is. I was worried about running out of ammo, clearing jams, gear coming loose, etc. I've learned over time to carry less and less. For me that means 1.5-2x the ammo requirement, a rag, extra pair of foamies, and ~12oz of water per 10k. Unless it's hot, then I go with 2L.

    I found suspenders work wonders for running with gear on your belt. I think mine are HSGI. I believe they were only $30. Money well spent.

    I had a similar experience with the Vickers sling and mud. Once it was caked on I could barely adjust it. Had to scrub it at home and even then it's still much harder to use. Now I use a Pig SMS sling(designed by @SLG). It uses an adjuster liked what you would see on a backpack strap. This does mean it has a tail that hangs off, but in the last 6 or 7 RnGs I've never had it snag on anything, or while hunting. The design gives you MUCH more leverage to adjust at the cost of having a tail.

    If you're hungry for more I highly recommend the OK Run n Gun in Pawnee. Registration for the Jan race should open soon. There will probably be a few PF guys there, myself included. The 20k challenge is really cool and unique to OK.

    Hope to see you(or any other PFers) at the Jan 2019 OK RnG

    ETA:. OK registration is open. I'm running the 20k.
    Last edited by littlejerry; 10-24-2018 at 06:37 PM.

  7. #497
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    Thanks for the great info, LittleJerry. Your thread helped inform and motivate me to try my first run and gun biathlon, and I'm glad I did. I've seen pictures of the Pawnee Run and Gun, and it looks to be just as physical and technical as the WTF biathlon here in Texas. I'd love to try it! I don't think I can make any in the Spring, though, due to my work schedule, but I see they offer them at other times of the year. It'd be great to meet you and some of the others on here to put a face to the folks that motivated me to finally try one and get hooked on this sport.

  8. #498
    I just competed in the Toys For Toys RnG at Blue Grass Sports man's League in Wilmore KY. Over the last two years I've run nearly ten of these things. What a blast!

    Jerry, I too was at Legion. That match was a beast!

    Upcoming on feb 23 is the Heartbreak RnG at BGSL in wilmore again. Depending on where you are it may be a little closer or a little further. But last years race out there was a real challenge!

    https://practiscore.com/heartbreak-run-n-gun/register

  9. #499
    Member Nick710's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    Oklahoma
    Did the Lead Farm RnG this past Saturday.

    Made it home safely, got some rest and finally got a chance to get my kit all cleaned up. That sticky Missouri mud, once dried, can be tough to remove. My poor Salomon Speed Assault shoes sure are taking a beating, but they are holding up well.

    Matt's matches have proven to be made for marksman and trail runners, and this one proved no different. Compounding the trail running was the 1.5" of rain received the night before the match. The ground was saturated, every low spot had standing water and every little creek was running full blast. One didn't even try to keep your feet dry on the trail. Wouldn't matter anyway as some of the obstacles had over knee deep water. You were going to get wet!

    The morning started out pretty nice, but clouds moved in and a brisk South breeze started blowing, making your waiting time darn right chilly (especially having been soaked). But everyone persevered and made the best of it.

    Lead Farm RnGs are generally high round count matches with lots of longer distance rifle steel. Couple that with some very challenging pistol stages and you have an interesting and stimulating match. There were a total of 6 stages, with most stages being a combination of rifle and pistol. This match did feature a rifle only and a pistol only stage. Rifle targets were anywhere from about 100 yards out to 600 with most being between 150 and 400 yards. Most targets were steel, but there was a mixture of some paper for both rifle and pistol. I believe the longest pistol shot was around 30 yards or so.

    Total round count was advertised at 76 rifle and 66 pistol. I think the rifle round count was reduced a little due to the modification of a couple stages. I shot 78 rifle rounds and 74 pistol rounds.

    As with most of Matt's matches, shooting positions varied with none being what I call standard positions. You had one stage where you had to shoot 2 pistol plate racks from a sideways prone (while lying in some cold, rain-soaked saw dust); another stage had you shooting rifle from a "tower" made from what looked like overgrown milk cartons stacked about 7 feet high (which you had to crawl up to get inside it).

    Trail markings were made with colored tape and once again, Matt uses the ingenious "token" system to keep you honest. Shooters were issued 5 tokens and along the trail were receptacles for you to place your tokens in. Failure to put a token in a receptacle resulted in a substantial time penalty.

    The trail itself was difficult enough, but made more so by the muddy, slippery conditions. The terrain at the Lead Farm is not flat and level, but varies in each little drainage and creek. There were lots of sliding marks going down and up each of these little elevation changes, making a physically demanding trail that much harder. There were a couple man-made obstacles along the way. A low bridge that you had to crawl under and a culvert that you had to crawl through, both running with lots of water; and a slackline thrown in for good measure.

    For the most part, the match went very smoothly. There was one issue that caused quite a bit of back up at a couple stages. There was a group of 5 officers from an area SWAT team that all ran together. Combined, they took a lot of time to shoot each of the stages, for everyone behind these guys, it caused considerable delay and wait times. Matt was made aware of this and will initiate a rule next time to prevent this from happening. Otherwise, all went very well.

    There were some great shooters and athletes at this event. There was a group of military guys from a local reserve group that come out and a few family members. I've said this before, but it bears repeating. These events attract some of the best folks you'll ever meet, from all walks of life. You need help figuring out a stage, just ask; you forget a piece of kit, just ask someone; you want to know what kind of optic is best, just ask and you'll get several replies. To me, that's the most enjoyable aspect of RnGs, the people. Matt and his staff of RO's did an excellent job, designed some tough stages and made a very challenging trail. A big thanks to Matt, his family and all the RO's that helped put this event on. I know I'll be anxious to attend the next Lead Farm RnG!

  10. #500
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    Aug 2017
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    Getting serious now about entering the RBGC race in August; wish it was a bit longer though. I've lost 40lb since August and I'm starting to hit the workouts hard. Need to keep working on the pistol (as always) and start shooting rifle again for the first time in years.

    Trying to figure out gear selection right now.

    Still under no illusions of finishing near the top but by God, I will finish.
    "Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." - R. A. Heinlein

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