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Thread: P-F's Thoughts on Springfield LW Frames? Or, where to from here?

  1. #1

    P-F's Thoughts on Springfield LW Frames? Or, where to from here?

    My father generously gifted me a Springfield Champion Operator Lightweight for reasons known only to him. And, while I'm thrilled to have both a new pistol and a father that spoils the crap out of me, I've come to a place of sobriety regarding this new acquisition.

    This is my first 1911-style pistol, and after reading through DocGKR and Bill Riehl's posts, as well as Hilton Yam's articles on the 1911, I am left feeling like a sixteen-year-old with his first car (to paraphrase another member here on the same subject). I want to avoid putting a spoiler on my gold '92 Volvo, thinking that I'll be able to drive it like a tuned sports car.

    This is not yet a gun I will consider using for self-defense. To that end, I use a gen 4 Glock 19 for training, carry, and home-defense.

    After firing approximately 600 rounds through the pistol, I am left with these concerns:
    1) I've heard good things on this forum about select Springfield frames (ie, NM frames). I can't find too much discussion on their LW frames. Is this because their LW frames are considered a no-go for serious use?
    2) I'm not entirely sold on the stock two piece guide rod. At approximately 150 rounds, the original began to unscrew during recoil. It was around this time that I started getting reliable stoppages. Springfield sent a replacement guide rod, which seems to be holding up, but still... I'm considering replacing this part with a Wilson Combat spring/guide rod set. What do I need to consider when swapping out recoil springs?
    3) Serious 1911 users have their pistols worked over by a reputable gunsmith, and spend quite a bit of money on this process. I'm okay with investing the time and money, but with this particular pistol, where would I begin? I believe it already has some features the Springfield Custom Shop would add with their reliability package.
    4) I've read Commanders aren't 1911s, and bring along unique baggage.
    5) Regardless of where this pistol takes me, 1911s are a just fun. I want more 1911 in my life.

    Thanks for reading,

    WDH

  2. #2
    New Member BLR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WDH View Post
    My father generously gifted me a Springfield Champion Operator Lightweight for reasons known only to him. And, while I'm thrilled to have both a new pistol and a father that spoils the crap out of me, I've come to a place of sobriety regarding this new acquisition.

    This is my first 1911-style pistol, and after reading through DocGKR and Bill Riehl's posts, as well as Hilton Yam's articles on the 1911, I am left feeling like a sixteen-year-old with his first car (to paraphrase another member here on the same subject). I want to avoid putting a spoiler on my gold '92 Volvo, thinking that I'll be able to drive it like a tuned sports car.

    This is not yet a gun I will consider using for self-defense. To that end, I use a gen 4 Glock 19 for training, carry, and home-defense.

    After firing approximately 600 rounds through the pistol, I am left with these concerns:
    1) I've heard good things on this forum about select Springfield frames (ie, NM frames). I can't find too much discussion on their LW frames. Is this because their LW frames are considered a no-go for serious use?
    2) I'm not entirely sold on the stock two piece guide rod. At approximately 150 rounds, the original began to unscrew during recoil. It was around this time that I started getting reliable stoppages. Springfield sent a replacement guide rod, which seems to be holding up, but still... I'm considering replacing this part with a Wilson Combat spring/guide rod set. What do I need to consider when swapping out recoil springs?
    3) Serious 1911 users have their pistols worked over by a reputable gunsmith, and spend quite a bit of money on this process. I'm okay with investing the time and money, but with this particular pistol, where would I begin? I believe it already has some features the Springfield Custom Shop would add with their reliability package.
    4) I've read Commanders aren't 1911s, and bring along unique baggage.
    5) Regardless of where this pistol takes me, 1911s are a just fun. I want more 1911 in my life.

    Thanks for reading,

    WDH
    My little brother's sole 1911esque pistol is a LW Champ Op. It is the only pistol he shoots. Ever. It has, as of right now, 42,400 200g LSWC PF170 rounds through it. And a few thousand 230g ball. He carries with 230g HSTs.

    The only mods: a Wilson FBFPS and RS assembly. Needed a new extractor in the 20k range. Forget the actual number.

    I'll give you a hint on 45/1911 reliability. It's all the mag and ammo. If the ammo was redesigned to have a smaller extractor grove, the reliability issues would disappear.

    Or if the feed angle on the mags were lowered, the reliability issues would go away. The issue with the 1911 was, is, and will likely be for the foreseeable future, the changing feed angle because of the changing ammo column-spring interplay.

    Sadly, the 1911 world is populated by self described experts who really are just talking out of their asses. Even the famous ones. And derpies ridden followers of the same. And derpies ridden retires who buy 4k 1911s that are afraid to scratch their gun.

    Buy Tripps, lots of base pads (they'll break when you drop them after a while), find a loader to make you a bunch of 200g LSWC at 1.230OAL (or there abouts, I find 1.25 too long) at a PF of 170. Go shoot a zillion rounds and have fun. Don't worry about the "experts" recommending silly crap like a depot rebuild every 10k, or the like.

    Oh, and change the slide lock/safety detent spring.

  3. #3
    Can't agree with much of the above advice, but the only point I'm going to type out is that 7 rd Wilson mags are still the best way to go.

    The Hill Brothers, Hillpeoplegear.com both carry lightweight SA 1911's. They have not shot 42,400 rds through them (I'm pretty sure they haven't), but they are pretty dialed in on what the LW frames need and can take. They have a forum on their site which discusses at least some of it, I think. Might be worth reading.

  4. #4
    New Member BLR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    Can't agree with much of the above advice, but the only point I'm going to type out is that 7 rd Wilson mags are still the best way to go.
    Care to elaborate?

    I'm not sure how a flat bottom firing pin stop, Tripp mags, or a new RS assembly from WC is exactly controversial. Though I did forget the HD ETMs.

  5. #5
    Sorry, too little info given.

    I don't disagree with the parts upgrades, and the Wilson 7 rd mags are a suggestion only. More guns than not like them, but I suppose not all do.

    I disagree about the "fixes" to the 1911, as well as the expectation (implied, not stated) that a LW gun will go as long as your brother's did. Unlikely, IME.

    That's about all I'll say, but as for the changing feed column angle, the 7 rd Wilson's may not be perfect, but they address that issue better than anything else, again, IME.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Riehl View Post
    .... find a loader to make you a bunch of 200g LSWC at 1.230OAL (or there abouts, I find 1.25 too long) at a PF of 170. Go shoot a zillion rounds and have fun.


    Nice to know I'm doing something right

  7. #7
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    The biggest issue with these guns is the hokey recoil spring assembly. Out flatwire kit will not fit without modification.
    in my opinion (which kinda mirrors BLR) you should:

    1) Lose the stupid ILS system and instead use a 23# hammer spring ($50)
    2) Go to a flatwire spring kit ($50)
    3) Use a square bottom firing pin stop ($20)
    4) Use 7 rd mags or "very good" 8rd mags with compact slide guns.

    Shoot the heck out of it. If the frame cracks where 1911's crack the gun will still work.

  8. #8
    I'll put my ignorance on display here, because I honestly don't know the answer to the question: how does changing the caliber from .45 to 9mm affect aluminum frame lifespan?

    By all accounts the aluminum Sig .45s were more likely to toast the frame given even modestly high round counts while the 9mms kept on truckin. Does the same thing apply to 1911s? (I mean, I don't see why it wouldn't, but I've been surprised before.)

  9. #9
    Thanks for your response, Bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Riehl View Post
    I'll give you a hint on 45/1911 reliability. It's all the mag and ammo. If the ammo was redesigned to have a smaller extractor grove, the reliability issues would disappear.

    Or if the feed angle on the mags were lowered, the reliability issues would go away. The issue with the 1911 was, is, and will likely be for the foreseeable future, the changing feed angle because of the changing ammo column-spring interplay.
    I find this topic fascinating. You may have touched on this in another thread, and if so, feel free to redirect me to the search bar - what are the challenges to successfully addressing the ammo column-spring interplay? And what prevents manufacturers from lowering the feed angle on their magazines as you suggest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Riehl View Post
    And derpies ridden followers of the same. And derpies ridden retires who buy 4k 1911s that are afraid to scratch their gun.
    I hear Dertrex works. You know, from a friend.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by WilsonCombatRep View Post
    The biggest issue with these guns is the hokey recoil spring assembly. Out flatwire kit will not fit without modification.
    in my opinion (which kinda mirrors BLR) you should:

    1) Lose the stupid ILS system and instead use a 23# hammer spring ($50)
    2) Go to a flatwire spring kit ($50)
    3) Use a square bottom firing pin stop ($20)
    4) Use 7 rd mags or "very good" 8rd mags with compact slide guns.

    Shoot the heck out of it. If the frame cracks where 1911's crack the gun will still work.
    Thank you!

    I've been looking at this from y'all: http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wir...oductinfo/651/

    Is this what you would recommend? And as for modifying the kit, will I be focusing on the reverse spring plug?


    Shoot the heck out of it, I will...

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