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Thread: Thoughts on the current Mini-14...

  1. #111
    Butters, the d*** shooter Byron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
    Byron: With respect, LSP wasn't talking about black people as a group.
    ...
    If you read some more of LSP's comments and you will see he has no time for thugs of any race, and equally no problem with decent people of any race.

    Sometimes things that seem to be "dog whistles" are nothing of the sort and that is the case here.
    I didn't claim that LSP hates all black people. I claimed, and stand by my claim, that LSP was using code words to communicate racial information. If I was completely off-base, I think he would have said so, rather than just telling me to piss off.

    Like I said, these code words aren't new. When I was reading Glocktalk 15 years ago it took me a while to figure it out, but I eventually realized what was meant when certain people said, "a democrat tried to rob me today."

    It would have been just as accurate to say, "Racial tensions are extremely high in my area and I drive through a predominantly-black neighborhood on a daily basis. There have been racial attacks in this area in the past, and I wish to prepare myself in case I find myself targeted." As frank as that may be, I don't think anyone would say that's racist at all. I'm not telling LSP how to speak: I'm just pointing out that racial issues can easily be broached without code words.

    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    Well, sorry to have twisted your knickers, but climb down off that self-righteous stump for a damned minute and note that _I_ didn't say one word about "hunting" anybody. What _I_ was talking about is groups of these people who congregrate for the sole purpose of tearing shit up, and will beat down anyone who gets in their way. When "their way" occurs on a public right-of-way, and I'm putzing along minding my own business, guess what?

    I believe this board has an "ignore" feature. If I offend you that much talking about reality, feel free to use it on me.
    My knickers are just fine, but thank you.

    You made your comments over 10 days ago. I did not say anything until now specifically because of the reason that you highlight: recent posters were talking about hunting human beings, and were referring back to your language.

    I just wanted to make sure TR realized what he was joking about, because anyone who stumbles across this forum and sees discussion of a bag limit on "liberal democrats" might get the wrong impression of people here. To make my point required a multi-quote to provide context, but I never accused you of wanting to hunt anyone.
    "If you run into an a**hole in the morning, you ran into an a**hole. If you run into a**holes all day, you're the a**hole." - Raylan Givens

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    That might be best.

    However, and this is directed at EVERYONE, posting (even jokingly) about killing people you disagree with isn't going to be tolerated at pistol-forum.com -- no matter what sub-forum it's in. The same goes for derogatory racial comments. Please refer to the PF Code of Conduct:
    And now we're back on topic. Not the topic of dissecting ad nauseum what Tom already warned folks about. If you see something wrong at PF, use the Report Post button. Help the mods do their jobs.
    #RESIST

  3. #113
    deleted Quote didn't work
    Last edited by UNK; 03-24-2015 at 06:51 PM.

  4. #114
    Including the DPMS GII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    Having seen one DPMS after another turn into a steaming pile of fail I wouldn't buy anything they make, except their ambi safety, that's pretty decent.

  5. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    If I was completely off-base, I think he would have said so, rather than just telling me to piss off.

    Well, that is true enough.

    .

  6. #116
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    Including the DPMS GII?
    No.

    I literally don't know anybody with one of those.

    Every OTHER DPMS AR has been junk though. I'll stand by that statement.
    I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
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  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    No.

    I literally don't know anybody with one of those.

    Every OTHER DPMS AR has been junk though. I'll stand by that statement.
    I shot a DPMS SASS that was won in a competition by a friend.

    He had to send it back after the barrel loosened within the gun and began to wobble.

    Personally, I wouldn't take my chances on a DPMS. Especially when there are things like the S&W MP10, etc. available and given the gravity of the topic.

    Any defensive weapon must first be reliable. You won't notice a sub-MOA grouping in a defensive situation when you're trying to figure out why your gun is short stroking because something like the carrier key is loose, (or heck barrel), RE is coming loose, etc.

    Lots of the threaded components in AR's are staked (Receiver Extension, Fasteners on the BCG) and Gas Blocks are pinned is because of those things.

    DPMS historically has had a spotty record. They may've turned over a new leaf, but to echo Chuck's sentiments. I wouldn't trust my life to a DPMS, and I can't in clear conscience recommend the same.

    ETA: The barrel loosened around the 300 round mark.

    ETA 2: I happened to talk to a shooter years ago about his AR, and he stood by a 1/8'' twist, .223 Wylde Chambered, SS barreled RRA AR for precision shooting. He was also a military shooter. Those features aren't something that wouldn't be found in a gun used for military service. I'll say this delicately because I'm not a military shooter, or really anything but a casual shooter. However, he only shot that in precision rifle competition, and I believe he was only shooting .223 through it. So, I think it was in a very controlled environment.

    However, ensuring things basic things as true 5.56x45mm chambers, proper receiver extension staking, using AR BCG's versus M16 BCG's, staking of the fasteners on the BCG are things that are routinely missed or not even something manufacturers like DPMS and others attempt to perform.

    Those issues in and of themselves can cause massive head aches for performance/reliability.

    That's just assembly and parts design, then you get into the quality of the parts actually used and the waters muddy even further.

    Anyway, there are much more qualified people than myself commenting here. They're not snubbing DPMS because of it's price point or a brand superiority complex; it's just out of (unfortunately) legitimate concern about the quality of the weapon for the intended use and concern for the end-user.

    ETA: This post was hurried and I want to communicate something that I failed to communicate earlier. Being in a profession doesn't necessarily make someone's opinion of something correct. Being an outsider looking in, we would all think that most Police Chiefs in large cities, would have lots of experience in the nitty gritty of Law Enforcement, and a career that saw many different roles, positions, and accolades. Which after a career of experience and years of dedicated service, in their twilight years professionally would be selected for that role because of those attributes. That would be, unfortunately, in a lot of cases incorrect. What matters more (from what I've gathered) is the professional accomplishments (such as a Doctorate degree) or how the Mayor feels about that officer's personal beliefs and other affiliations, etc.

    I see shooters sometimes in a similar circumstance, some military shooters do have a distinguished background for that skill set and are very squared away in their opinions. Some are simply in that role right now; while commendable. Their being in that role doesn't mean that they have an intimate understanding or knowledge about their weapons system.

    I have a family friend that served as an Army Officer, and three of his sons have served as Army officers. They've been deployed to Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places. As well as graduated from West Point, Ranger school, Cavalry schools, etc. But truthfully, they don't know much about the AR pattern of rifles; beyond how to maintain it, etc. They simply don't care. Operation orders on how to move an entire battalion from the United States to a Foreign country and mobilize for war and things of that nature; sure.

    But the intricacies on what extractor spring or the color of the insert they have in their bolt? 3/4 of them probably couldn't tell you if their life depended on it. No slight against them, they just didn't need to know that information.

    Just pointing out something that I see as a trend out there.
    Last edited by BWT; 03-24-2015 at 09:54 PM.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWT View Post
    This post was hurried and I want to communicate something that I failed to communicate earlier. Being in a profession doesn't necessarily make someone's opinion of something correct. Being an outsider looking in, we would all think that most Police Chiefs in large cities, would have lots of experience in the nitty gritty of Law Enforcement, and a career that saw many different roles, positions, and accolades. Which after a career of experience and years of dedicated service, in their twilight years professionally would be selected for that role because of those attributes. That would be, unfortunately, in a lot of cases incorrect. What matters more (from what I've gathered) is the professional accomplishments (such as a Doctorate degree) or how the Mayor feels about that officer's personal beliefs and other affiliations, etc.

    I see shooters sometimes in a similar circumstance, some military shooters do have a distinguished background for that skill set and are very squared away in their opinions. Some are simply in that role right now; while commendable. Their being in that role doesn't mean that they have an intimate understanding or knowledge about their weapons system.

    I have a family friend that served as an Army Officer, and three of his sons have served as Army officers. They've been deployed to Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places. As well as graduated from West Point, Ranger school, Cavalry schools, etc. But truthfully, they don't know much about the AR pattern of rifles; beyond how to maintain it, etc. They simply don't care. Operation orders on how to move an entire battalion from the United States to a Foreign country and mobilize for war and things of that nature; sure.

    But the intricacies on what extractor spring or the color of the insert they have in their bolt? 3/4 of them probably couldn't tell you if their life depended on it. No slight against them, they just didn't need to know that information.

    Just pointing out something that I see as a trend out there.
    This is something I run into all the time working at the LGS...

    65-80 year old with no experience: "I want to buy a handgun. My son-in-law told me to buy either a sub-compact XD-40 or a Smith and Wes... Smith and Weston 38 because it is small and light."

    Me/my co-worker: "Sir/Ma'am... I really wouldn't recommend that. They're difficult to grip properly, have excessive recoil and are difficult for novices to shoot well." (paraphrased)

    65-80 year old with no experience: "Well, my son is law: is in the Navy/is in the Local PD/has lots of guns."

    Me/my co-worker: "Ooookay... your total is... Please fill out this form..."

    The only thing more aggravating is when I've closed someone on a sale and someone decides to chime in about: "9mm's have no stopping power/you should really buy an AK/M14 instead/I have this other brand and it is the best/the best thing about AKs is that they can also shoot M16 ammo."

    I don't want to discount the skills and knowledge of those folks that are masters of their craft, but simply having current/prior service doesn't make one a subject matter expert.

    That being said, don't blindly trust the counter monkey at your local gun shop. Most of us are only there for the employee discount, and the cool factor that comes with playing with guns for a (meager) living. It all comes back to not relying on the Appeal to Authority.

    FWIW, DPMS is one of those brands I send back fairly regularly for repair... the running joke is that DPMS stands for: "Didn't Pass Mil Spec."... and I live in a state where ARs exist only as glorified range toys that hold 10 rounds and have mag changes that require the use of tools.

  9. #119
    Are you specifically talking the DPMS GII? I don't know first hand so I am genuinely interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven_Sicks_Two View Post

    FWIW, DPMS is one of those brands I send back fairly regularly for repair... the running joke is that DPMS stands for: "Didn't Pass Mil Spec."... and I live in a state where ARs exist only as glorified range toys that hold 10 rounds and have mag changes that require the use of tools.

  10. #120
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    DPMS, and their high rate of failure due to bolts cracking, was probably 50% of the impetus for my research that eventually became The Chart.

    The other 50% was trying to figure out what made Colt so good that (A) I rarely heard of any issues and (B) people I considered to be in the know almost universally suggested them.

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