The 40cal on its way out?

[BWT]

Not to be a jerk, but we're kind of getting into a circular discussion.

It's a hard sell to say .40 S&W will outlive/outperform/be as equally relevant to the caliber in use by the U.S. Military, NATO, FBI, has been in use since 1902, has 4 different calibers that use the same projectiles (.357 Magnum, .38 SPL, 9mm, and .380), and pretty much all modern SMG's are chambered in, and is also probably the best selling center fire pistol cartridge.

That's not even mentioning the ballistic advantages I mentioned 5-6 pages ago.

You like 40 S&W for your purposes; that's great. I just don't know how much more there is to say about it.

[UNM1136]

I have no experience with the 4th gen glocks. I have carried a Sig P229 on duty for years, and could run it well, but was not in love with it. The 3rd gen Smith and Wesson pistols also didn't stand up too well to going from 9mm to .40, if I recall correctly. The spring weights have already been mentioned, which is an Achilles heel in the Glock platform, in my opinion. Also, if you check Glock's website the mass of a Glock 22 is almost an ounce lighter than a Glock 17. I have had .40 Glocks with less than 5,000 rounds fail on the line, only to start working better when the springs were replaced. This was before Glock recommended replacing springs every 2,500 rounds, and we sorta figured it out on our own and the problems went away. Then two years later I get a technical bulletin asking us to make the change. A large state agency here was in love with the .357sig round, with about 16% more pressure, and the Glocks they bought had more than a 50% failure rate after four years due to wear and tear. The rangemaster got them converted to M&Ps, and four years later dropped the cartridge for 9mm, again because they were "shooting the guns apart".

Sample size means a lot. When you have a couple of guns that you may not shoot particularly hard, you won't see the wear and tear that the armorer/instructor for a 40 officer agency, or a 500 officer agency, or a 1,000 officer agency sees. Half of the cops in that 500 officer state agency were very happy with their issue pistols. The training and armorer staff and purchasers saw a more complete picture, and made the right decision. My experience agrees with a lot of what Chuck has posted already. There is a difference.

I don't think that looking at chamber pressure, or bullet mass, nor muzzle velocity tells a very complete picture for determining recoil, slide velocity, and slide acceleration. Direct empirical evidence should be the gold standard, but it starts to get expensive to design studies to compare apples to apples. The Glock 19 and Glock 23 weigh the same according to my armorer's manual, and according to the interwebs you can shoot 9mm out a G22 with just a barrel change. Looking at it this way may be a step in the right direction, but most of our observations will still be subjective, unless some Pointdexter somewhere wants to design a rig that will allow measuring of those variables across platforms and spend time studying it. Most people that know the difference just make different choices to accommodate their judgements on the topic.

Interesting indeed. However, I'd rather have a G21 that could shoot .40S&W. None of the usual suspects offers this type of conversion barrel. Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the G21 and G20 frames that prevents this?

It's my understanding, though I could be wrong, that a G20 can be converted to shoot .40, and a G21 can be converted to shoot 10mm, so why not .40 in a G21? What am I missing?

Breech face. While the interwebs are full of just slap a barrel in and go, you lose reliability, and safety. The interwebs have complained that you can just load .40 into a G20 and be good to go, but the cartridges headspace on the mouth, so there may be a huge issue, and it will be something that works well until it doesn't. Since the G20 frame and G21 frame are identical, you just need to purchase the parts that they don't share to have the safest, most reliable pistol. Off the top of my head that is the entire upper assembly and the trigger housing. The extractor and ejector line up differently on the different cartridges. I wanted a 10mm for bowhunting in bear country, and I decided to build it. I bought a used frame on Gunbroker, and a slide assembly from EBAY. and a trigger housing/connector/.40 barrel from one of the internet shops.

EDIT: I just looked up my parts list. Chuck is correct, as usual. The 10mm/.45 use the same ejector/trigger housing. All the parts needed to swap are in the slide assembly. The 10mm barrel and slide are much beefier than the .45 parts, so while some guys say you can use the same slide, I wouldn't.
pat

[Chuck Haggard]

One can switch a G21 to a G20 with a slide and barrel swap, the lower is the same.

With two slides and four barrels a guy could have a large frame Glock lower that shot .45acp, 10mm, .40, and .357Sig

If a place limited how many pistols one could own that might be an awesome thing to do.

[Tamara]

You see fewer of them traded in because fewer departments bought them to begin with.

Yes, the fattest part of the ramp-up in widespread Glock adoption coincided with the AWB and widespread use of the .40; you'll get no argument from me that the G22 has been the Model 10 of the last 30 years. Its market share seems to be waning, although it will probably remain in a plurality of LE holsters if no longer a majority.

[BWT]

Looking back, I should've worded my last post more cautiously and patiently. As it is; it may stir up dissension. My apologies about that if it did.

[SamAdams]

One can switch a G21 to a G20 with a slide and barrel swap, the lower is the same.

With two slides and four barrels a guy could have a large frame Glock lower that shot .45acp, 10mm, .40, and .357Sig

If a place limited how many pistols one could own that might be an awesome thing to do.

+1

Yep. Didn't see the earlier question posted.
I got complete G21 uppers and mated them with the lowers on my 20sf pistols, - for shooting 45acp. Use 45 mags when shooting that and 10mm mags for 10 and 40.
Also got a 22LR conversion kit. With the 40 conversion barrel, makes a very versatile set up.

[Tamara]

I'll note that, among much of the general shooting populace, 9mm still carries a stigma. I had my 9mm PPX out on the table at the gun show this past weekend, with four mags, two CCC holsters, a CCC mag holder, and some gun show kydex at a very attractive price, and if I had a dollar for every Cletus that coonfingered it and then said "Oh, it's a nine... Do you have it in .40?" I wouldn't have had to sell it to buy the P320.

[SamAdams]

I'll note that, among much of the general shooting populace, 9mm still carries a stigma. I had my 9mm PPX out on the table at the gun show this past weekend, with four mags, two CCC holsters, a CCC mag holder, and some gun show kydex at a very attractive price, and if I had a dollar for every Cletus that coonfingered it and then said "Oh, it's a nine... Do you have it in .40?" I wouldn't have had to sell it to buy the P320.

They'd probably ask for Hydra-Shok too.

[Tamara]

They'd probably ask for Hydra-Shok too.

Yup. Certain memes are insidious among the low-information sort.

[Ptrlcop]

If I was in Indiana I'd drive over there and buy one or two of those G17s. I bet I know where they came from.

I got one. Went on days off and had a fed ex box waiting on my desk when I got back[emoji1]. The sights were the only thing that really had any wear. It will be going out to AETi for an rmr and grip chop next week.