The 40cal on its way out?

[Rich]

Jim Cirillo told me in conversation that he thought the .40 was best chambered in a "large frame" pistol, back then there being pistols that were either built to be 9mms or built to be .45s/10mms. Jim was a smart guy and did a lot of gun and ammo experimenting. His G20 with a .40 barrel worked rather well, as have all of the other G20s I've seen with .40 conversion barrels.

A G20 upper with a shortened front-to-back grip shaped to fit G22 mags would be optimal IMHO

I been reading gun magazines since the 70`s .
BTW I've read about the 10mm never made since to me. ( When the New Delta Elite came at the shop iI bought a Combat Elite instead. My first carry Pistol.)
I read about the 10mm recoil and that it was hard for some to control. Which led to the 40S&W .

The only Kabooms I've heard about that time where G22/23 mostly and not so much the Beretta 96. Although I read about the Beretta 9mm problems that to this day still get thrown into the mix.
( I had both the 98 and 23 both had 500rds fired and traded in.)


What other 40cal LE service pistol were built to 9mm specs. I cant think of any.

Seem Glock & Beretta rushed getting a 40cal pistol in decades ago and the current crop of 40cal LE service pistols are getting a bum wrap to this day.

[Rich]

The 40 loads has 25-30% more recoil impulse than a normal 9 mm load, and about 20% more than 9 mm +P loads. Yet the G22 and G17 have almost the same recoiling mass (slide + barrel) and the recoil spring is the same up to Gen 3.

I agree that a heavier slide would tame slide velocity a lot in the 40 glocks.

That's the reason I like the ole P229 40S&W. heavy SS slide really tames the impulse. And depending on loads used has less of a impulse than my 9mm P30S.

Love to try a 9mm P229R

[Rich]

.40 S&W subjectively feels like a sharper impulse; .45 Auto is more of a heavy push, while 9 mm is a light push. With high round count training, .40 & .45 hurt more the next day, 9 mm not so much.

Glock should have put the .40 S&W into the GAP style guns--that would be perfect.

I wanted a Pistol with l with less impulse than my P229 40S&W when fed 180gr loads

Wanted a G19 but at that time they had some issues.
So I ended up with another DA a P30S V3 9mm.
Headed to range to shoot my normal 500rds. Speer Lawman 147gr & 124gr
I got to 400rds and called it quits.
Believe it or not I think the SP lawman 124gr has less impulse than the SP 147gr lawman.
And the 124gg load is faster ? rated at 1050FPS out of a 4 inch tube

[Sportster883]

I'll have to disagree that it is a fine choice.

Like I said if over penetratin is a persons worry the silvertip is a fine choice for that individual. Lots of people who have no clue do worry about such trivial things. For them, the ones who want less penetration, it will be fine for them. The latest revision does exactly what it's designed to do.

You disagree that it is a shallow penetrator?

[Chuck Haggard]

Like I said if over penetratin is a persons worry the silvertip is a fine choice for that individual. Lots of people who have no clue do worry about such trivial things. For them, the ones who want less penetration, it will be fine for them. The latest revision does exactly what it's designed to do.

You disagree that it is a shallow penetrator?

Pretty sure Doc thinks the problem is exactly that it is a shallow penetrating round. Too much so. I would agree.

[Chuck Haggard]

Rich, I personally don't have enough experience with Sigs to be speaking on the subject from a first hand perspective.

A local department is running Sig .40s as issued duty guns for a couple of hundred guys. I know one of the armorers there, he tells me they have to do a bit more parts work that he would think would happen with the 9mms, but I'd have to ask him for specific details. I try to stay ion my lane when talking about stuff like this.

The Glocks are obviously problematic, as are the Beretta 96s. The S&W 3rd gen guns, even being stainless steel, also had many more issues as .40s than as 9mms. All of these I have a lot of first and second hand info on.

Early on, the HK USP .40s were problematic, and I know of more than a few KaBooms with that platform as well.


Although minor parts are often seen as no big deal by shooters, in agencies this can lead to issues due to scale.

Just jumping on one I know of as a glaring example, the FBI has to maintain about 10,000 Glocks. If the .40 means you have to replace a part, lets say the locking block pin, as part of PMCS, then buying a $3 part for the gun is no big deal. Buying 10,000 $3 parts starts to add up.

I don't know of, and I could easily be wrong about this, of a .40S&W pistol that doesn't require a recoil spring/RSA swap earlier than the 9mm version of that same pistol.
With gen 3 G22s I have seen the gun beat themselves into parts breakage in under 5000 rounds when the RSA is not swapped out. 2000 rounds on an RSA is my personal limit for a Glock .40cal, in the 9mms I've gone 10,000 rounds without issue.

I'll defer to other folks ref different brands of .40 pistol.

[Tamara]

All I know is that I have had my choice of police trade-in G22s and G23s at gun shows for the last couple years, but I'm still waiting for the table with the "LE TRADE-IN GLOCK 19: $329 w/ nites!" sign.

[BehindBlueI's]

All I know is that I have had my choice of police trade-in G22s and G23s at gun shows for the last couple years, but I'm still waiting for the table with the "LE TRADE-IN GLOCK 19: $329 w/ nites!" sign.

Here you go on a G17, $320. Must be LE, though, as Kiesler's Police Supply generally only sells to agencies or individual officers:

http://www.kiesler.com/police/produc...2616&pid=22737

You see fewer of them traded in because fewer departments bought them to begin with.

[UNM1136]

Here you go on a G17, $320. Must be LE, though, as Kiesler's Police Supply generally only sells to agencies or individual officers:

http://www.kiesler.com/police/produc...2616&pid=22737

You see fewer of them traded in because fewer departments bought them to begin with.

Actually, locally, the officers issued 9mms are very frequently given the option to buy them upon retirement, or when the issue weapon is changed over. Local experience says the 9s get purchased a lot more often than the .40s.

[Chuck Haggard]

If I was in Indiana I'd drive over there and buy one or two of those G17s. I bet I know where they came from.