The 40cal on its way out?

[Rich]

9mm recoils less (which leads to faster follow up shots; which may be necessary), wears less on the gun, is cheaper to load and shoot, gives you more capacity, and is available in more platforms. 9mm yields the benefits of a caliber that's been around since 1902, IIRC and is therefore more widely available.

Do you think the Win Ranger 127gr +P+ , 124gr +P Gold Dot . 124gr +P HST all have less recoil than any 40S&W load?

Don't get me wrong .

I have nothing against the 9mm for LE use at all. I even switch to a 9mm in 2014 for les recoil (P30S V3 9mm). all though I found out later my P229 40cal can have less recoil depending on loads used.

I just think when it comes to feeding a 9mmm service pistol +P and +P+ loads thing equal out some. as far as recoil and wear goes.

[BehindBlueI's]

Behind: The .40 and the 165 gr HST are fine choices--but I have seen a lot of cops, including federal LEO's, who have a hard time handling the .40, usually in my opinion because of training issues.

Likely so. There are things I can complain about with my department, but firearms training isn't one of them. They even send a rep to every police action, get autopsy results, etc to see what worked and what didn't. Many of our FoF scenarios are taken from actual PAS events the year before.

It's coming. When, not if.

I doubt it, at least no time soon. Our Troopers went to 9mm for a bit then went to .45. I just haven't seen the push around here. We got Gen 4s maybe 2-3 years ago, so I'm figuring it'll be 7-8 years before anything is even considered to change to. Whatever they go to then will probably be what I retire with, so they'll have one bite at the apple to issue me a 9mm.

[Rich]

I sent Emails asking handgun manufactures a question about service life

A 9mm service pistol feed a steady diet of Win Ranger T 127gr+P+ VS 40cal service pistol

I wonder how much longer service life the 9mm pistol will have when compared to the 40cal

[BJJ]

I sent Emails asking handgun manufactures a question about service life

A 9mm service pistol feed a steady diet of Win Ranger T 127gr+P+ VS 40cal service pistol

I wonder how much longer service life the 9mm pistol will have when compared to the 40cal

I find Winchester 9mm +p+ shot out of a Glock 19 to have significantly more felt recoil than 165 grain .40 gold dots fired from a Glock 22.

[DocGKR]

Why would any sane agency issue 127 +P+ given the fantastic lower pressure options currently available?

[BJJ]

Why would any sane agency issue 127 +P+ given the fantastic lower pressure options currently available?

My understanding is that Winchester 9mm +p+ is always available while Speer Gold Dot +p is sometimes available. I was quite pleased when I qualified with a Glock 19 for off duty and they handed me Speer and not Winchester. Coming from years of .40, Speer 9mm feels easy to shoot.

[SLG]

Rich,

Your ideas are simply not supported by reality. How many more times does someone need to point this out? We break .40 Glocks on a regular basis at under 10,000 rds. Never seen any other caliber do that, except 10mm. Edited: I don't think for a second that most gun companies have any kind of an accurate clue about how long their guns will hold up. If they do, I don't think they'll give you an accurate number. I've heard all sorts of speculation from them. A few know better than the rest, due to Mil/LE testing, but that involves a specific protocol, that most users will not follow.

BWT and 883,

I agree with much of what you guys have said, but I'll cherry pick a couple of areas. Though LE is a small % of the gun owning public, LE Agencies buy way more ammo than the rest of the public combined. That is what drives the .40, both its popularity, and its possible decline. Military use of the .40 also boosts sales, and by quite a bit. As for the .45GAP, the only reason 10% of LE agencies issue it (your numbers, not mine) is because Glock gave them away for nothing. Usually took a loss to do so. No one has adopted it of their own volition, afaik. So I'm not sure what it has to do with this discussion (seriously, not being sarcastic).

[JBP55]

[QUOTE=Rich;304111]I sent Emails asking handgun manufactures a question about service life

A 9mm service pistol feed a steady diet of Win Ranger T 127gr+P+ VS 40cal service pistol

I wonder how much longer service life the 9mm pistol will have when compared to the 40cal[/QUOTE}

Compare the 127+P+ to 155, 124+P to 165 and 147 to 180 in the same size/type pistol and get back with us. I think it is common knowledge that 9mm pistols outlast .40 pistols of the same type/size.

[Sportster883]

Rich,

Your ideas are simply not supported by reality. How many more times does someone need to point this out? We break .40 Glocks on a regular basis at under 10,000 rds. Never seen any other caliber do that, except 10mm. Edited: I don't think for a second that most gun companies have any kind of an accurate clue about how long their guns will hold up. If they do, I don't think they'll give you an accurate number. I've heard all sorts of speculation from them. A few know better than the rest, due to Mil/LE testing, but that involves a specific protocol, that most users will not follow.

BWT and 883,

I agree with much of what you guys have said, but I'll cherry pick a couple of areas. Though LE is a small % of the gun owning public, LE Agencies buy way more ammo than the rest of the public combined. That is what drives the .40, both its popularity, and its possible decline. Military use of the .40 also boosts sales, and by quite a bit. As for the .45GAP, the only reason 10% of LE agencies issue it (your numbers, not mine) is because Glock gave them away for nothing. Usually took a loss to do so. No one has adopted it of their own volition, afaik. So I'm not sure what it has to do with this discussion (seriously, not being sarcastic).

The 40 got the same start. Gaston had a pistol on the market while S&W needed a couple years getting a working pistol to market. During that time Gaston was doing one for one trades. Your old gun for my new G22. They just used the same game plan for the GAP. I remember because I was doing a lot of shooting in them days (early 90s), and a family friend of my parents was a cop, and his kids were cops. We shot together all the time. Even their department received one Glock in 40 for every gun they traded to Gaston. It was a great plan so they used it for the GAP. Gaston gave away more 40s than he has GAP pistols. There are several small departments that do adopt it on their own. When I lived in NC our local department adopted it all on their own, even bought the guns. FHP requested a Gen4 G37 and they would adopt it. So Gsston made a Gen4 for them. There are several small departments in MI where I live now that adopted it all on their own. There are many small departments across the country that have bought into the GAP. It don't make the nightly news so you never hear about it.

Almost forgot the ammo numbers. There is no way police buy or shoot more as a whole than non sworn civilians. They would have to shoot a couple hundred rounds for every round I fire in a year. I shoot 3K a year in the G37 and 3K a year from my 9mm. If they bought 1000 rounds per officer it would be a billion rounds. Not just throwing numbers out there, them are actual, and they would have to do it every year. Back when I was doing a lot of shooting I was loading and shooting 900 rounds a week. Shot that much for 7 years straight before I got myself my own family. These days all I can afford is 6,000 rounds a year. Their numbers are so low compared to non police that they would have to shoot hundreds of rounds per one round fired per non sworn just to match totals, let alone excede ammo they buy by a huge margin as you said.

[SLG]

The 40 got the same start. Gaston had a pistol on the market while S&W needed a couple years getting a working pistol to market. During that time Gaston was doing one for one trades. Your old gun for my new G22. They just used the same game plan for the GAP. I remember because I was doing a lot of shooting in them days (early 90s), and a family friend of my parents was a cop, and his kids were cops. We shot together all the time. Even their department received one Glock in 40 for every gun they traded to Gaston. It was a great plan so they used it for the GAP. Gaston gave away more 40s than he has GAP pistols. There are several small departments that do adopt it on their own. When I lived in NC our local department adopted it all on their own, even bought the guns. FHP requested a Gen4 G37 and they would adopt it. So Gsston made a Gen4 for them. There are several small departments in MI where I live now that adopted it all on their own. There are many small departments across the country that have bought into the GAP. It don't make the nightly news so you never hear about it.

Almost forgot the ammo numbers. There is no way police buy or shoot more as a whole than non sworn civilians. They would have to shoot a couple hundred rounds for every round I fire in a year. I shoot 3K a year in the G37 and 3K a year from my 9mm. If they bought 1000 rounds per officer it would be a billion rounds. Not just throwing numbers out there, them are actual, and they would have to do it every year. Back when I was doing a lot of shooting I was loading and shooting 900 rounds a week. Shot that much for 7 years straight before I got myself my own family. These days all I can afford is 6,000 rounds a year. Their numbers are so low compared to non police that they would have to shoot hundreds of rounds per one round fired per non sworn just to match totals, let alone excede ammo they buy by a huge margin as you said.

I was sincerely asking why you mentioned the GAP before, and now I see that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Neither the GAP info or your modest personal ammo use has anything to do with this discussion.