Winchester Model 70

[GJM]

that is the model my buddy had, and I was looking at

[Prdator]

oooh, shiny!!

M70 Extreme Weather SS

"Bell & Carlson stock. . . aluminum bedding block designs (for a total lock from action to stock), you get superb accuracy, ideal balance and strength....."

Real deal or marketing BS?

OH MY..... They are chambering it for the Legendary 264 win mag.... I must have one...... That is my favorite caliber of all!!! Long history of the 264 in my family. It was the first rifle my dad got for me.. and I gave my nephew a pre 64 in 264 this last year for Christmas... ( working for Keepers Concealment has its perks)

Im a huge W70 fan as well.. the new ones are proly the best M70's that have been made... Maybe someday Ill build my battery back up.. 223AI,65.x284, 264, 270, 06, 300 ultra 338 ultra, 375 ultra 375 wetherby, 416rem and 458 Lott. cause One M70 aint enough.

[Aray]

I hate all of you. Now I must have one in .30-06. It's for my son...after I'm dead of course.

[Crews]

oooh, shiny!!

M70 Extreme Weather SS

"Bell & Carlson stock. . . aluminum bedding block designs (for a total lock from action to stock), you get superb accuracy, ideal balance and strength....."

Real deal or marketing BS?

My TSR XP in 308 is sub moa. Action is smooth, the trigger is decent, the factory bottom metal is solid, and the Hogue stock is alright. For my hunting use, it has been my favorite out of the box rifle to date. I've got a Manners elite hunter stock, and CDI DBM kit on order, but that's just extra.

[okie john]

Much better than, for example, a Kimber which seemed fragile by comparison.

Not to derail the thread, but can you comment more on the Kimber's fragility? I'm very close to picking up a Montana in 308 and I'd like to avoid problems if that's possible.

Thanks,


Okie John

[GJM]

Not to derail the thread, but can you comment more on the Kimber's fragility? I'm very close to picking up a Montana in 308 and I'd like to avoid problems if that's possible.

Thanks,


Okie John

I had a .260 Kimber. It didn't always feed properly, and .260 is not a demanding cartridge to feed. If you handle it, and compare it to a model 70, it seems obvious that the weight savings came out of downsizing the action. My standard for a .308 class gun, is will the rifle hold up to a 300-500 round, three day practical rifle course. I don't get warm feelings in that regard. Not just a Kimber criticism but one of very lightweight rifles. The NULA being another example. My buddy broke the bolt in half on his NULA. Not confident of the feeding on mine. By comparison my model 70 .260 is bombproof, and I would run any class with it.

SLG might chime in here, as I believe he had a Kimber that was great until it wasn't.

My custom builder says that the stainless barrel Kimber guns are iffy on accuracy, maybe 50/50 as to will they shoot accurately. Better with the blued barrels.

[secondstoryguy]

I love controlled feed Winchester Mod 70s. By far the best of all worlds when it comes to a hunting/practical rifle. Besides the advantages of the controlled feed action the safety and locking bolt are big advantages in my book. Having carried rifles over hill and dale I've had a few bad experiences with rifles who's bolts don't lock, namely, sling carrying a rifle up a mountain and shouldering it only to find the bolt open with the live round ejected and the action filled with snow. This won't happen with a Mauser style action and the rifle can be unloaded with the safety on.

The other advantage of the pre-64s or the 90s New Haven guns is the trigger. Stupid simple, reliable and can be tuned for a really nice pull/break usually without modifications.

I've also had a bunch of experience with the Kimber rifles, especially the Montana model. Great rifles and they will tolerate a lot of abuse but as GJM stated I would hesitate to run them in a high round count class. They simply are not made for that. Like the Mod 70, the triggers are easily adjustable and well made. The Montana is IMHO the perfect mountain hunting rifle (and pretty much all hunting). The price is right and a great value for what your getting. A well stocked stainless rifle with controlled feed and a good trigger that hovers around 6.5lbs with optics for under a $1K...what's not to like!

The Kimbers also shoot amazingly soft for their weight. As far as accuracy goes I've seen good to excellent accuracy from the late production models. They can be a little finiky with bullet weights/types but all have been acceptable.

As a side note controlled feed actions are making a comeback in certain circles. Several custom action manufacturers have recently put out custom actions incorporating proven Mauser type designs. Be forewarned, they arn't cheap:
http://www.americanrifle.com/Mausing...lt-Action.html
http://defiancemachine.com/ (Not cataloged yet but available with a full length extractor)

[SLG]

I have a bunch of Kimbers in a bunch of calibers, as well as a bunch of M70's. Not as many as GJM.

Some of the kimbers shoot lights out, some do not. More than 50% of them had to go back to factory, some multiple times, and they still don't go bang all the time. That's what's not to like. With the Kimbers, you're paying for features, not quality. They are light and handy, with Mauser type bolts. They just don't work every time, so for me, that's not a good way to go. My wife and I hunted a lot with our Kimbers, but it has been a few years since we were willing to take one in the field and risk it.

The M70's are bigger and heavier, but I trust them. Never had one that needed to go back. As mentioned, I think the new ones from SC are the best yet. Integral feed rails would be nice, but they seem to work anyway. Triggers are good and accuracy seems pretty consistently good. Overall, the current M70 is my choice in a bolt gun for field use, though more often than not, I pick my 6.5 G AR instead of any bolt.

I know a bunch of the guys on the Kifaru forum, and they are dedicated lightweight hunters. The Kimber was the "school solution" to that for a while, and then many of them had problems with their guns as well. I bought my first 84M knowing about the issues but figured I'd try it out. Too frustrating after a while.

[GJM]

Some of the kimbers shoot lights out, some do not. More than 50% of them had to go back to factory, some multiple times, and they still don't go bang all the time. That's what's not to like. With the Kimbers, you're paying for features, not quality.

Paying for features is a great way to express it. When you look at them on paper, the Kimber seems phenomenal. It is the consistent execution that is lacking.

I expect a bolt gun, even in a light caliber like .260 to be able to double duty -- harvest an animal, and protect me from bears and other creatures. To that end, I do a bunch of testing of feeding, from gentle to vigorous. That is the reason, despite having a NULA and Kimber .260, I went to the trouble of having a .260 built on a short action model 70.

[okie john]

Thank you to everyone for your comments on your experiences with the Kimber. For now, it's off the list.

I'll start another thread to keep from derailing this one any further.

Thanks again,


Okie John