Not the least surprised the 320 is competitive in any matchup. (I just traded mine for a G31 LOL)
Not the least surprised the 320 is competitive in any matchup. (I just traded mine for a G31 LOL)
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
KevinB hit the nail on the head. There are less than a half-dozen organizations in the whole U.S. that have the ability and resources to correctly run a small arms test that is actually technically sound and statistically valid.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
How many of these agencies are issuing Glocks? Just curious.Originally Posted by DocGKR
The FBI issues Glocks.
Are you saying that Texas DPS is not one of them?
US Navy Veteran
1961-1965
Texas DPS, like Dallas PD is so heavily into SIGs that I wouldnt doubt for a minute that they would adopt the 320. There is a push in DPD to get the 320 at the very least authorized.
The weird thing is I was in GT Distributors a few weeks back and two TXDPS SO guys were in looking at things. One had an M&P9F in fis holster, with a tan grip insert, and the other was carrying a fullsize Glock, I'm not sure what model. Both were looking at the M&Ps. The guy carrying the M&P sung its praises, the guy with the Glock thought it was OK. They very interesting guys, but wouldnt elaborate on what TXDPS-SO does, even though I had some fair ideas. A few months ago there were two Texas Rangers actually buying kit to go with their M&P9s they were sure to start carrying soon. Both were carrying concho'ed up 1911s though!
DPS Special Operations Group includes SWAT, Aviation the bomb squad and other tactical units. SOG falls under the Rangers and like the Rangers, they have wide latitude on handguns. They issue a SIG 1911 with a rail in 45 in addition to the P226 in 357. The SOG guys in our area mostly carry 1911's or the P226 with a few Glocks and at least one STI 2011. The local Ranger I've worked with carries a 1911, a 5" Colt XSE which is stock except for grips and a 10-8 rear sight. He has the requisite floral carved BBQ rig for it though.
Like I said it's not surprising the stuck with the SIG. The real thing driving this is the switch to 9mm due to the cost and availability issues associated with .357 SIG. I believe the new gun is incidental to the caliber swap.
From what I'm being told, they're offering the P320 as a replacement for current issue at the officer's choice. New graduates from the Academy will be issued P320s. I'm hearing that not many guys are eager to give up their current .357 Sigs...
That was the plan with the M&P and I understand that's how they've done their weapons transitions in the past, at least when they went from TDA 357 226's to the same model in DAK. I can understand the reluctance to give up the P226 after the M&P fiasco but I think just as many don't want to give up the 357 SIG round. Part of it is a cultural/macho/Magnum-Itis thing.
I personally like the 357 SIG round. To steal a phrase from the tactical hobo, it's a guilty pleasure. however, I freely admit the current generation of bonded 9 mm duty loads are just as effective as they're bigger brothers, especially the +P and +P+ versions. As you know, from an agency/program management point of view that makes the switch to 9 mm a no-brainer.
Like your agency Kevin, we issue the SIG 40 Cal. We currently allow personally owned agency approved Glock 17 and 26 with speer124 grain + P gold dots. I'm convinced enough to carry the nine's on and off-duty and members of our national firearms and Patrick seen it I've spoken with our convinced 9 mm is the way to go as well. However, we have issued 40 Cal's since 1996.
For most of our folks, the 40 Cal is all they know. Our national firearms and tactics unit recently did an online survey of all our LEOs to gather data on what the troops want in a new duty weapon. The overwhelming majority wanted to stay with the 40. I'm sure years of their Academy instructor's telling them that we issued the 40 instead of the "ineffectual" 9 mm certainly played a part in that. I think many of the same dynamics will be in play in DPS.
I would love to see the 320 adopted by someone. My LGS says he is selling 5 VP9s for every 320. I have shot both, and They are both good pistols. I just don't know why the 320 is not taking off. If this is true, it should really help boost civilian sales.
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HCM, I was at our national firearms unit several months back. HQ and agents want the .40 because they really don't know any better. Everyone on the HSI side of things at FT Benning had a Glock 17 on their hip. The training folks and armory staff seem to want the switch to 9mm. HQ types in DC want the .40 because they think it is somehow magical. The real hurdle to a 9mm switch is the institutional inertia of .40 in the supply train, and 5 year ammo contracts. It will take a while for a full switch. That time and cost may leave us with .40 for some time.
With that said, a little birdie whispered in my ear that the new duty pistol solicitation is written and approved, but has not been published due to our lack of approved budget. It is expensive to adopt a new pistol. Our guys have to do the valid testing that Doc GKR refers to. It is through testing, but expensive...
So many better choices than the SIG DAK out there. That same agent survey of mentioned gave the biggest complaints of the current DAK as trigger pull and pistol weight. I predict Glock, M&P, FNS, VP9, and P320 as the strong contenders for the new DHS pistol contract. I really hope we end up with polymer and striker in some flavor.
Last edited by Gadfly; 02-28-2015 at 10:00 PM.
“A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” - Shane
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