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Thread: Verbal aggression at gunpoint

  1. #11
    One of the weirdest thing I had happen to me was being in an edged weapon confrontation (with one of Tom's "all of the above" type bad guy) is watching him deal,with the blade. I was so used to guys talking all sorts of crap at the end of a gun that it was weird to see the major visceral difference of compliance when a blade was involved. It seems if they know they are going to get cut, it affects them at a different level.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
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  2. #12
    I have seen people completely disregard guns being pointed at them several times. Once that happens, it can be difficult to regain control of the situation. This also applies at the agency level:-) I suppose I've been lucky that I haven't had it happen to me, but I think even most crazy (certainly not all) people realize when they're dealing with someone who will actually shoot them.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by nyeti View Post
    One of the weirdest thing I had happen to me was being in an edged weapon confrontation (with one of Tom's "all of the above" type bad guy) is watching him deal,with the blade. I was so used to guys talking all sorts of crap at the end of a gun that it was weird to see the major visceral difference of compliance when a blade was involved. It seems if they know they are going to get cut, it affects them at a different level.
    I've seen that as well. Especially overseas, people respect blades.

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthNarc View Post
    It fascinates me personally and I think it's the area least explored and discussed. Everyone wants problem solving to be linear and formulaic and real life rarely pans that way.
    It fascinates me as well... pseudo-sociopath behavior is being taught to people as a default response to any human interaction from a not insignificant number of trainers. If one commits to emulating a sociopath, then this approach can work. Otherwise it leaves students with an extremely limited set of options for dealing with complex, fluid situations.

    To clarify: well-intentioned people are defaulting to their level of training. They are being trained to disengage from everything and to consider everything a potential criminal ruse. In my opinion they are being set up for failure by the very trainers who are supposed to be experts. They're being told that acting like a sociopath is always the correct option every time.

    These are good people listening to bad advice.
    my screen name from back in the day was The_Katar
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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    It fascinates me as well... pseudo-sociopath behavior is being taught to people as a default response to any human interaction from a not insignificant number of trainers. If one commits to emulating a sociopath, then this approach can work. Otherwise it leaves students with an extremely limited set of options for dealing with complex, fluid situations.

    To clarify: well-intentioned people are defaulting to their level of training. They are being trained to disengage from everything and to consider everything a potential criminal ruse. In my opinion they are being set up for failure by the very trainers who are supposed to be experts. They're being told that acting like a sociopath is always the correct option every time.

    These are good people listening to bad advice.
    You lost me on that one. Can you elaborate? I've never had training that advocated acting like a sociopath.

  6. #16
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    I've seen numerous examples of it. Every human interaction is met with I CAN'T HELP YOU or GET BACK, regardless of circumstances or context. I've been subjected to this kind of training as well - if you haven't, you are fortunate.

    Edited to add: of course the above may be a wholly appropriate response... but if that's the only response you've got loaded in, then you rapidly cut off options. Getting back to the original topic, I've seen countless cases of DROP YOUR FUCKING WEAPON over and over and over again... but what happens if the person simply doesn't feel like dropping their weapon? Little bit of a Mexican stand-off thing usually happens.
    Last edited by Jay Cunningham; 02-26-2015 at 07:22 PM.
    my screen name from back in the day was The_Katar
    former M4C mod and staff, former PF staff, former VSM instructor, current nobody

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Getting back to the original topic, I've seen countless cases of DROP YOUR FUCKING WEAPON over and over and over again... but what happens if the person simply doesn't feel like dropping their weapon? Little bit of a Mexican stand-off thing usually happens.
    Wasn't there a study of this technique that showed it makes the situation worse? Something to the effect of saying that command over and over shows the bad guy you're not willing to use force and gives him time to formulate a plan of attack or escape.

  8. #18
    AIWB Cultist Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    It would seem that some people are simply unimpressed with guns - imagine that.

    I think having role-players who are similarly unimpressed with guns...
    When I teach my CCW classes I talk about this. I relate the story of one of our locals ne'er do wells. He's 25 or so and been shot on 5 different occasions. Having a gun pointed at him does not phase him in the least.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
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  9. #19
    Oils and Lotions SME
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    Sometimes an actual tough (bad) guy believes that the person barking orders at him isn't in fact a tough (good) guy. When the bad guy is unperturbed by stern words, that can really cause an OODA problem for the good guy if he isn't prepared for that potential reaction.
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  10. #20
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Sometimes they don't even care if you kill them. I had a guy we were looking for, who had down 17 armed robberies in two nights, at the end of my shotgun, his plan was to kill us or to have us kill him, going back to prison was off the table for him.
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