Verbal aggression at gunpoint

[Coyotesfan97]

There is an old joke about a standoff with a bunch of officers yelling at a guy to "drop the gun" only to be ignored. Two old salts then arrived on scene. One of them said once to drop the gun, and the guy complied and surrendered.

When asked why he complied with that officer after having ignored all of the others, the bad guy said, "Because when that one guy said to drop the gun, the other guy with him stuck his fingers in his ears."

When one of my partners shot a guy holding his wife at knifepoint I was standing behind him with my fingers in my ears. That short barreled AR was going to be loud inside that apartment!

[LittleLebowski]

I haven't read the whole thread yet but that's exactly what I was thinking. Holding someone at Malinois or Dutch Shepherd point is always interesting especially if you show up when someone is daring cops to shoot them. They BELIEVE the dog will bite them. Ive seen hardcore criminals surrender to the dog. I've also run into a few guys who don't think the dog will bite them or they can outrun him. They usually fall into the all of the above crowd. Then we get to discuss why they thought that at the ER..

I really wish I had gone K9 handler of some sort. #sortajealous

[ToddG]

Same thing with the threats most folks will encounter. They tend to run into the aggressive panhandler, the low-level junkie, the bad guy who is bad only as long as he feels in control, etc. Sometimes they run into thehard casee who practices and believes in the blitz attack, but it is so rare for most folks as to be off the radar. So the industry trains to a common threat level. I don't have a problem with that. The person who is prepared for 95% of what is likely to happen to them is way ahead of the game than one who does not prepare at all. If the 5% happens, well, sometimes folks do get attacked by tigers in the USA. But how much that should figure into ones personal defense plan....I'm not real sure on that point.

I think it's a false dichotomy. It's not a function of training for one or the other.

Not to speak for Aray, but that's the point I read into his post: It's not about training to deal with panhandlers or psycho killers. It's about training to deal with as dangerous a threat as you possibly can given your physical, emotional, financial, and temporal limitations... and then learning how far to push the throttle in a given circumstance.

It's sort of like the hard focus vs target focus thing: Reaching a skill level that allows you to deal with axe murderers will prepare you for the aggressive panhandler who turns violent; training only to the level of dealing with an untrained and low-level panhandler threat won't help you much when the axe murderer starts swinging at your noggin.

[Chuck Haggard]

Sometimes the idiots want to fight the dogs as well as the coppers.

I recall several cases where the bad guy did rather well and the dog might have lost the fight had other coppers not stepped in. One of our handlers had to blast a guy that stabbed and killed his dog during an arrest.

Many times it doesn't work well for the bad guy though. One burglar in particular tried to run from the dog, got caught, started punching the K9, dog let go and then went in to reengage, bad guy was bit in the crotchital region but didn't stop fighting, this led to him losing the head of his penis and the entire organ being what they call "degloved".

[TR675]

Actually....

Also actually... ;D

Estimates of up to 1 in 5 have an alcohol problem. I'm willing to spot some percentage points there to Puritan alarmism and uncertain sources, but from first hand observation and experience...We are a drinkin' bunch!

http://www.benchmarkinstitute.org/t_by_t/mcle/sa.pdf

[1slow]

Sometimes the idiots want to fight the dogs as well as the coppers.

I recall several cases where the bad guy did rather well and the dog might have lost the fight had other coppers not stepped in. One of our handlers had to blast a guy that stabbed and killed his dog during an arrest.

Many times it doesn't work well for the bad guy though. One burglar in particular tried to run from the dog, got caught, started punching the K9, dog let go and then went in toe reengage, bad guy was bit in the crotchital region but didn't stop fighting, this led to him losing the head of his penis and the entire organ being what they call "degloved".

Well, you can't call him pecker head anymore. Ouch !

[Totem Polar]

Many times it doesn't work well for the bad guy though. One burglar in particular tried to run from the dog, got caught, started punching the K9, dog let go and then went in toe reengage, bad guy was bit in the crotchital region but didn't stop fighting, this led to him losing the head of his penis and the entire organ being what they call "degloved".

Dude's probably still out there somewhere, going off half-cocked.

[JohnO]

What to say and how to say it?

There's alot of clinical advice given on this subject. "SIR, DON'T FORCE ME TO DEFEND MYSELF SIR!!!" Things like that.

IMO that's horseshit. Clinical statements don't resonate with the people you're pointing guns at OR the people you're explaining your actions to after the fact.

Whatever you say MUST communicate your intent at that moment and the language used is going to be unique to each person. I might say "Motherfucker I'll kill you deader 'en fuck" in my best cracker-ass cracker drawl and sell it. That may not work for someone else. Regardless of what's said you must project dominance and gravitas. Confidence is what allows one to do that. Real confidence. Not mind-set lectures, not NLP, not talking yourself up in the mirror like Stuart Smalley.

In my mind the following question begs to be asked: Can one over communicate their resolve improperly, be captured on video/audio and in the process jam themselves up?

I'm thinking of a situation where deadly force became necessary. Prior to the use of and in a impassioned attempt to avoid deadly force one barks something along the lines of "I've been itching to put a scumbag like you down". Assuming it was a Justified shooting and one was doing their level best to avoid taking the next step.

I could see where certain communication could be exploited. Especially if the word scumbag above was substituted with a racial epithet.

[Dagga Boy]

On the other side of totally non-verbal- I have a good friend who is on he other side of 50 at LAPD. Very good shooter, martial arts guy and lots of training classes under his belt. He recently had to deal with an uncooperative gang member being a jerk. He was went to the old school rapid draw to a hard low ready that was the hallmark presentation from the elite units within LAPD. He got immediate compliance with a "whoa, don't shoot me old timer". This is a large mammal with outstanding ingrained skills. It is funny how the crook recognized that presentation as coming from someone with no issues in dumping him. Never pointed the gun at him, no screaming "get on the ground" over and over with no follow up, nothing but pure determined confidence. May not work for everybody, but I have found that crooks will be doing constant assessment of those they encounter to push as far as they can. Keep in mind,they are in fight or flight mode as well. They understand and can read if the person they are facing has the stones to follow up on what they are posturing. It is one of the reasons I am so against "regular folks" trying to pull off "street talk" when confronting hardened criminals. The criminal knows you are posturing and essentially "faking it". It will be interpreted as both fear and indecisiveness.

[KeeFus]

Dude's probably still out there somewhere, going off half-cocked.

Thats hilarious!