War on Drugs

[TheNewbie]

The War on Drugs has been raging for decades now, and it seems we are making little, if any, progress in the proper direction. No matter how much we fight them, I still see an endless stream of people with them.

I have been a cop for almost 8 years, and spent over a year as a full time investigator for a criminal defense attorney. I am no super cop, have not worked in a major city, or fought the border war. However what I have seen is a broken, ineffective system, which does not deter drug offenses or even effectively punish or treat them.
To me it seems that the following would be a good solution.

1. Legalize all drugs.
2. Regulate them at a small level if at all.
3. End all federal contributions to welfare.
4. Heavy drug testing for those using state and local welfare.
5. Less laws, less complicated laws, but tougher punishment for those convicted. With the possible exception of DWI laws.
6. Make prison a place where the environment is about truly reforming the people the best we can.
7. Save the tax payers billions by reducing the number of people in jail and the money spent through various agencies and grants.


I am no libertarian utopian and I know there is no free lunch. There are many people here with more experience than me in this area and I would like your thoughts on the issue. As well as anyone else who has opinions on it. I need to see the holes in my theory.

[MGW]

My short answer is because the drug trade is about a lot more than the end user. The financial cost is a small part of the equation. It's easy to say that drugs could be legalized and regulated by the government. Instant crime reduction, instant revenue increases for various governments. But what players would profit from this? What countries and foreign organizations profit from this?

Long term what are the effects to American culture? I don't want to live in a world where drugs are treated like Bud Light. The Super Bowl commercials would be interesting to say the least.

[LittleLebowski]

Like it or not, it's been lost for a long time.

[RoyGBiv]

Decriminalize, yes. Legalize, no.
"Drugs" are bad, for the user and for society.
The current fix (The "WOD") has proven ineffective, but the next thing to try should involve decriminalizing users, creating controlled, legal paths for manufacture and distribution (removing criminal organizations to the extent possible), prioritizing treatment over jail for users (illegal manufacturing and distribution should remain illegal) and building societal pressure towards personal responsibility and abstinence, much like the success that's been achieved with tobacco products.

The problem is that voters and politicians can't think in more than 2 year cycles. The solution here requires a long term view.

[WDW]

If you legalize & regulate you'll be spending equal amounts of money or more in doing so. That would essentially be saying that the U.S. Gov't condones & approves an individual using heroine. I doubt the USP or the FDA is going to give their seal of approval on such.

[RoyGBiv]

If you legalize & regulate you'll be spending equal amounts of money or more in doing so. .

Basis? Data? Facts?
Seems there are a few examples already. Some hard numbers may be available.
Not saying I can prove you wrong, just that without real data, that statement sounds a lot like "there will be blood in the streets", IMO.

[orionz06]

Not sure legalizing all drugs would be as smart/useful as at least considering why a plant is illegal. I'm not aware of anyone trying to legalize everything.

[GardoneVT]

The War on Drugs has been raging for decades now, and it seems we are making little, if any, progress in the proper direction. No matter how much we fight them, I still see an endless stream of people with them.

I have been a cop for almost 8 years, and spent over a year as a full time investigator for a criminal defense attorney. I am no super cop, have not worked in a major city, or fought the border war. However what I have seen is a broken, ineffective system, which does not deter drug offenses or even effectively punish or treat them.
To me it seems that the following would be a good solution.

1. Legalize all drugs.
2. Regulate them at a small level if at all.
3. End all federal contributions to welfare.
4. Heavy drug testing for those using state and local welfare.
5. Less laws, less complicated laws, but tougher punishment for those convicted. With the possible exception of DWI laws.
6. Make prison a place where the environment is about truly reforming the people the best we can.
7. Save the tax payers billions by reducing the number of people in jail and the money spent through various agencies and grants.


I am no libertarian utopian and I know there is no free lunch. There are many people here with more experience than me in this area and I would like your thoughts on the issue. As well as anyone else who has opinions on it. I need to see the holes in my theory.

Looking at this with an economic lens, id have to say right away caution must be exercised when assuming legalization is a better alternative.

There are external forces to consider in American society, externalities which do not have a dollar figure. How do we determine which drugs to legalize? Whatever isnt legalized remains embargoed, and will have to be controlled by law and enforced accordingly.We thus return to Square One.

To fully eliminate the Black Market, every illegal narcotic from weed all the way up to black tar her-ron would have to be legalized for over the counter purchase.

Now we have to contend with the non-dollar figure social consequences.What happens when college students start dropping meth to cram tests ? What happens when the number of accidental OD's and injuries from drug use hit the already overtaxed medical system? Instead of DUIs from alcohol, will we have DUIs from cocaine users to deal with?

Then there's the cost required to set up over the counter regulation-which means Ray Ray on the corner wont be hurting for work. Some folks will spend the capital to get legal. It is a major stretch to assume criminals will be tripping over each other to file 1099s to become legal sellers.Why pay taxes when you can just keep selling like you did before and keep every penny?

No such thing as a free lunch guys.Legalization is one of those things I personally believe is better to keep the devil we know, even including the tax benefits we could realize. On the other side of higher tax revenue /greater financial benefits socially is someone suffering real life changing problems due to narcotics.You cant make a supply and demand metric for a father wanting his former honor student , now meth-addicted daughter to come home.

[cclaxton]

Good posting. It starts the conversation. When you ask drug users how to fix the system they say the following:
1) legalize marijuana, and make it like beer/wine/liquore;
2) Establish drug courts for harder drugs and alcohol, with the emphasis on recovery, mental health services, and long term sobriety;
3) Invigorate the mental health industry so that it is capable of handling the load of people with mental, emotional and familial problems. These are the primary drivers of addiction.

The truth is that drugs damage people, make them self-centered, result in abusing their families and stealing to feed their habits. It is a bad thing.
I am not sure what welfare has to do with your argument. You are right to ask that welfare recipients be drug free, but not sure that is a drug problem. This is more of a social problem.

I am all for less complicated laws, but that is a HUGE problem because of the way legislation layers and layers on top of existing laws. Very complicated and hard....almost have to start all over in some cases.

Not sure about your prison statement. Druggies and alcoholics don't belong in prison, BUT there are a lot of people who DO belong in prison because they are: A) Psychopaths, 2) Sociopaths, or 3) Chronic Criminals (by way of abusive/criminal upbringing), or 4) Justice demands that they be there because of the heinous nature of their crimes. However, prisons should be a place where rape is rare rather than common, and normally non-criminals who enter don't come out permanent criminals.

Also, laws should change that prohibit discrimination against felons for jobs and their right to vote. If you can't get a job when you get out, what are you gonna do?...

But, it's a good start.
Cody

[WDW]

Basis? Data? Facts?
Seems there are a few examples already. Some hard numbers may be available.
Not saying I can prove you wrong, just that without real data, that statement sounds a lot like "there will be blood in the streets", IMO.

Well who is going to regulate the stuff? It's not going to be done for free. They pay people now to "fight" against it. Do a total 180 & you'll be paying different people to study, regulate, inspect, distribute, produce, package, and so on. You can't just magically legalize a product people put in their bodies & leave it at that.