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Thread: C3 carry: An apology.

  1. #1

    C3 carry: An apology.

    I am not a fan of C3 carry for me, UNDER MOST CIRCUMSTANCES.

    I do think that David Armstrong and the others have a point, so I apologize for belittling them. I am home sick for a few days and have gone back and reread the entire thread. Whew!

    There are very few circumstances where I would carry C3, and they have been discussed already.

    My argument against C3 was based on the performance difference, and that may have been the wrong tact.

    I completely agree with Nyeti that a revolver may be the correct solution for many people who cannot or will not carry C1.

    What it comes down to is that everything is a compromise and you cannot prepare for every possible scenario. That is why we train generally, instead of specifically.

    My personal belief (since none of us can predict our next violent encounter), is that raw draw speed is not much of a factor in most defensive shootings. I have a personal example where raw draw speed prevented a shooting, but the BG didn't know if my chamber was loaded or unloaded.

    Ultimately, I believe that history, even recent history, shows that you are prepared for most violent weapons encounters carrying C3. In some circumstances you may be MORE prepared carrying C1, in others, maybe less.

    SA trumps all and a condition white guy with a 1.5 second, on demsnd draw (fast for most good shooters, IME) will likely fail, compared to the C3 guy who sees it even 1 or 2 seconds in advance. Successful fighters often see it sooner than that. Sometimes I think we put too much emphasis on the hardware, and not enough on the software. The splits that I am most concerned with are in the MUC phase, not the phew phew phew phase.

    If a person makes a rational threat assessment and decides to carry C3, I believe that they are better of than the guy who doesn't carry.

    Again, I apologize to Mr. Armstrong an the others who tried to get that point across.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    I can concur with much of that.

    I do think in many defensive shootings that speed to the first shot is indeed important though. The video of the gal from Thailand, one of Tom's students, shooting up the armed robber in her shop is a great example IMHO.

    I also think too many people value high capacity in a semi-auto when they would be far better served with running a wheelgun.
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  4. #4
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    I've viewed C3 as a legit condition of readiness for off body carry when circumstances may force such and perhaps in a situation where a loaner pistol is available ie a striker design w/o safety and no proper holster.

    Contrary to some (ahem . . .Caleb ) I would not consider such a person unarmed.

    The OP is strong and surely appreciated by any affected. It's good though for us to absorb all the feedback we can pick up on these discussions but not let them get under our skin if it seems to "belittle" our own reasoned choices or conclusions.

    I keep meaning to put C3 on the timer by the way on some standard drills. It's so alien to my normal it always slips my mind. Maybe the 5x5. Fun stuff.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  5. #5
    Site Supporter KevinB's Avatar
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    I'm still confused with the revolver as an options to C1 carry. Mainly as a revolver is C1 (unless you keep the cylinder under the hammer clear - then it is kinda C1 anyway, or keep the cylinder clear entirely and carry a speed loader with the gun)

    I get the long heavy DA trigger - just curious if that is all?
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  6. #6
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    I'm still confused with the revolver as an options to C1 carry. Mainly as a revolver is C1 (unless you keep the cylinder under the hammer clear - then it is kinda C1 anyway, or keep the cylinder clear entirely and carry a speed loader with the gun)

    I get the long heavy DA trigger - just curious if that is all?
    In my limited experience I've known a few folks that just psychologically, can accept carrying the C1 revolver whereas chambering that semi just freaked them out. Not good but it was what it was.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  7. #7
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    In my limited experience I've known a few folks that just psychologically, can accept carrying the C1 revolver whereas chambering that semi just freaked them out. Not good but it was what it was.
    ^This^ is my take on it.
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  8. #8
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    That's like being OK filling your car up with fuel, but it's terrifying if your truck's tank is filled
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    In my limited experience I've known a few folks that just psychologically, can accept carrying the C1 revolver whereas chambering that semi just freaked them out. Not good but it was what it was.
    You just described my neighbor. Vietnam vet, was a cop in the midwest in the 70's and 80's, retired, moved to TX and just recently retired from his second career in the medical field. He's mostly a Trap and skeet shooter. He recently purchased a Glock for CCW but was carrying it C3. When I inquired why, he told me he carried a 1911 C3 in the military and DA revolvers as a cop but after a non-injury AD into his locker with a 9mm off duty gun during his cop days, he wasnt comfortable carring the Glock C1.

    Long story short, he traded the Glock in for S&W M-36 and he is good to go for CCW.

    PS- The day after I got him to trade in the Glock, he went back to the store and bought a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 mag which had caught his eye as a 'house gun" !

  10. #10
    Member rsa-otc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLG View Post
    I am not a fan of C3 carry for me, UNDER MOST CIRCUMSTANCES.

    I do think that David Armstrong and the others have a point, so I apologize for belittling them. I am home sick for a few days and have gone back and reread the entire thread. Whew!

    There are very few circumstances where I would carry C3, and they have been discussed already.

    My argument against C3 was based on the performance difference, and that may have been the wrong tact.

    I completely agree with Nyeti that a revolver may be the correct solution for many people who cannot or will not carry C1.

    What it comes down to is that everything is a compromise and you cannot prepare for every possible scenario. That is why we train generally, instead of specifically.

    My personal belief (since none of us can predict our next violent encounter), is that raw draw speed is not much of a factor in most defensive shootings. I have a personal example where raw draw speed prevented a shooting, but the BG didn't know if my chamber was loaded or unloaded.

    Ultimately, I believe that history, even recent history, shows that you are prepared for most violent weapons encounters carrying C3. In some circumstances you may be MORE prepared carrying C1, in others, maybe less.

    SA trumps all and a condition white guy with a 1.5 second, on demsnd draw (fast for most good shooters, IME) will likely fail, compared to the C3 guy who sees it even 1 or 2 seconds in advance. Successful fighters often see it sooner than that. Sometimes I think we put too much emphasis on the hardware, and not enough on the software. The splits that I am most concerned with are in the MUC phase, not the phew phew phew phase.

    If a person makes a rational threat assessment and decides to carry C3, I believe that they are better of than the guy who doesn't carry.

    Again, I apologize to Mr. Armstrong an the others who tried to get that point across.
    Prue class right there folks. One of the biggest reasons that while I belong to about 5 or 6 forums I really only spend time here.

    I agree with his points as well.
    Scott
    Only Hits Count - The Faster the Hit the more it Counts!!!!!!; DELIVER THE SHOT!
    Stephen Hillier - "An amateur practices until he can do it right, a professional practices until he can't do it wrong."

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