Glock 19

[MDS]

I've played around quite a bit with modifying the 9mm Glox. I've decided that the sights are all I need to change, and I'd like to get some apples-to-apples comparison before I swear to that. I think a lot of the tweaks exist so that great shooters can squeeze that extra ounce from their performance. I'm still at the level of finding pounds of performance by practicing and improving gross technique, I'm just not at the skill level where small tweaks make a performance difference. When it comes to the idea that for most people, most of the time, a stock g19 can't be meaningfully improved upon...well, I guess I'm the 99%. I'll be camping out to demand that all the shooting 1%ers give me my fair share of skillz.

Meanwhile, I focus on reliability...and the stock configuration is pretty reliable, so here I am. I still have the Vickers mag release on one gun, just because I'm too lazy to swap it back for stock. But I won't use the Vickers slide release because of reliability issues discussed elsewhere.

I also played around with a bunch of trigger group mods, but didn't measure any consistent performance gainz. Listening to all the really good shooters here, I get a vague feeling like maybe multiple repetitions using correct technique is the answer to my accuracy problems. Who know? I guess can practice during the 99%er camp-out.

Heh...there's a joke about kitchen table gunsmiths there somewhere, but I have not the wit, nor the mental fortitude at the moment to exploit it.

There's a good one brewing in my mind that includes Doc and Bill and N2O gun finishes. (I've never met DocGKR, but when I receive the honor, I'll be disappointed if he's nothing like Steve Martin in Little Shop of Horrors.)

[rob_s]

I've played around quite a bit with modifying the 9mm Glox. I've decided that the sights are all I need to change, and I'd like to get some apples-to-apples comparison before I swear to that. I think a lot of the tweaks exist so that great shooters can squeeze that extra ounce from their performance. I'm still at the level of finding pounds of performance by practicing and improving gross technique, I'm just not at the skill level where small tweaks make a performance difference. When it comes to the idea that for most people, most of the time, a stock g19 can't be meaningfully improved upon...well, I guess I'm the 99%. I'll be camping out to demand that all the shooting 1%ers give me my fair share of skillz.

I made this chart a while back. I think it's applicable to this thread.

[Surf]

I do believe that at some point in some shooters careers it may become an arms race so to speak. Of course you have those .5%ers who are savants and can shoot anything better than most of us mere mortals who may strive for improvements in gear or weapon tech at some point in time. While we always need to strive to improve skills no matter who we are, at some point skill development and increases in performance may be as small and as incremental as improvements provided by weapons and gear improvement. Tiny incremental improvements that for most people those details might go mostly unnoticed in performance or the ability to benefit from such small improvements and may be masked by overall gains that could be made elsewhere in just development of an individual's base skill sets.

The biggest things that most people get when they shoot my personal Glock(s) that are modified is the increase in comfort, huge improvement on traction, noticeable improvement in sights, how easily it likes to accept and drop mags and they either love or hate the trigger. I do have completely stock Glocks and often like to let people shoot them back to back. One thing I notice is that the more skilled the shooter, generally the greater the appreciation for the performance increases as opposed to just pure comfort of how the weapon feels in the hand. Comfort is different from familiarity. Some don't like the initial feel of the grip on a modified Glock, not because it is not comfortable in the hand, but because it does not have the same feeling that they have grown accustomed to from a stock Glock and finger grooves. So it may indeed appear to feel less comfortable.

Do those who like the Glock finger grooves desire to add finger grooves to other weapons? Maybe, but I would guess that majority would probably say no. Finger grooves increase the grip size and morso that hump on the backstrap creates more havoc for Glock shooters, especially with smaller hands, than most people really understand. Many of these "accuracy issues" are greatly helped by removal of the finger grooves and reducing the size of the hump. The Gen4 helped in some area's but can still be fixed.

Overall it is the individuals choice. Hopefully they are making those choices from an informed position and not just because they see others doing it.

[rob_s]

Finger grooves increase the grip size and morso that hump on the backstrap creates more havoc for Glock shooters, especially with smaller hands, than most people really understand. Many of these "accuracy issues" are greatly helped by removal of the finger grooves and reducing the size of the hump.

I'd love to see actual data on that. 25 inexperienced shooters, 1 hour of basic verbal instruction, fire each gun, 10 rounds, for groups.

[psalms144.1]

So, the usability of the G19 came to the forefront for me again today. I was running a range for my squad, had a "problem shooter." A relatively non-shooting, VERY small handed female, was all over the place with her issued P239 DAK in 40. I worked her over most of the rough patches, then said, "try this" and handed her my Gen4 G19. At 7 yards, she put 15 rounds into one quarter-sized ragged hole center mass on the Scoring outline of a Transtar target. I had her try my Gen4 G26 as well, which she liked, but felt the G19 "felt better" in her hand. She had never handled or shot a Glock before this afternoon

I expect to have another 9mm Glock shooter on the squad sometime next week...

I will add that, using our hot loaded 155gr JHP, the P239 DAK is possibly even LESS comfortable than the G27 (recoil is concentrated much more in the web of the hand - very "ouchy")

[Chuck Haggard]

Do those who like the Glock finger grooves desire to add finger grooves to other weapons?

Yes. Most of my revolvers have finger groove grips installed, just as one example.

[Argus]

I've got a Glock 19 that's a bit of a problem child. It's around 2008 vintage, and exhibited erratic ejection and occasional brass-to-face issues pretty much from the outset. I switched it to a 30274 ejector and non-LCI extractor, as my other Glocks run well with this combination. The ejection pattern is more consistent, but now I am getting 1 or 2 failures to eject every couple hundred rounds or so. It does not appear to be ammunition or magazine-specific.

I'm considering trying an Apex extractor, but I'm not sure I want to keep trying to chase the issue down. I'm starting to think I should just trade this one on another G19, maybe a Gen 4. Any thoughts?

[GJM]

Randy Lee fixed a Gen 3 17 with similar problems, only worse, for my wife. I believe that was the reason he built a Gen 3 specific extractor (initially they weren't Gen specific), as he used her pistol for the development.

$56 from Midway versus the cost of a new 19, good prospects for success either way but no guarantee -- only you can decide.

[Argus]

Thanks GJM. Yeah, I guess I was just thinking there might be other benefits to the Gen 4 that might make it worth trading up, assuming the ejection issues have been somewhat ironed out of the newer guns. I will have to give it some thought.

[Nephrology]

I've got a Glock 19 that's a bit of a problem child. It's around 2008 vintage, and exhibited erratic ejection and occasional brass-to-face issues pretty much from the outset. I switched it to a 30274 ejector and non-LCI extractor, as my other Glocks run well with this combination. The ejection pattern is more consistent, but now I am getting 1 or 2 failures to eject every couple hundred rounds or so. It does not appear to be ammunition or magazine-specific.

I'm considering trying an Apex extractor, but I'm not sure I want to keep trying to chase the issue down. I'm starting to think I should just trade this one on another G19, maybe a Gen 4. Any thoughts?

One easy thing to check first - how old is your recoil spring (i.e. rounds through the gun)? Have you done the recoil spring check (point unloaded pistol to ceiling at ~75 degree angle, pull trigger, rack slide and slowly ease forward - should snap into battery w/o issue)? A bum recoil spring can cause FTEs, too.