RFI: 1911 Policy/Transition Course

[jbg270]

Our agency will be approving personally owned 1911's by early summer and I have been tasked with developing policy and a transition course.

Can anybody share their agency’s 1911 policy and/or transition course?

Thanks in advance.

[SLG]

Not what you're looking for, but I can't recommend you guys do that. Too many problems, imo.

[jbg270]

Preaching to the choir!

This decision was made well above my pay grade.

[SLG]

Copy that.

When you say "share...policy" What do you mean? I can't share our transition course, but its not worth sharing, so no loss to you.

[KevinB]

Ugh - running backwards in time...

I would suggest that the department requires officers to demonstrate the same skills they are trained on with the standard issue weapon, and be required to shoot 10% better or greater on the qual course than the department standard is for the issue pistol.

[HCM]

Contact LAPD. They began allowing regular officers to carry personal 1911's in 2010. The officer must be shooting expert with his current duty gun. 380/400. Guns include Colt , Kimber, and Springfield and must pass inspection by dept armorers. Officers must pass a two day transition school and qualify monthly vs quarterly.

I know it's a pain from an admin / program management point of view but if the officer cares enough to shoot 95% or better on quals and drop at least $2k on the gun and associated gear it's worth it from a motivation / morale point of view.

[Gio]

You need to maximize the round count for the course by firing a lot of very short drills (i.e. 1-2 rounds at a time for the majority). The key thing to emphasize is making it muscle memory to disengage the safety as you draw or present the gun to a target, and then return the weapon to safe when you either return to a ready position or the holster. Reloading and using your off hand to close the slide with the slide stop rather than your strong hand thumb like on a Glock or Sig will also take some practice.

Add stress to shooters with a shot timer. They may be able to disengage the safety regularly on a qual course or other slow fire drill, but adding the stress of a shot timer will usually highlight a lack of muscle memory or technique in disengaging it.

[Depmur]

If you will drop me an email to emery@dallascounty.org from your Department email I will email ours. We have a rather broad list of privately owned pistol to include the 1911 that we allow.

[ST911]

For transition: It needn't be a complex COI, or a reinvention of any wheel. I would identify the essential differences between the 1911 and what's already issued/approved, and train to those. I.e. operation of the safety, field stripping, function checks. Add some reload work for the comparatively lower capacity. For "qualification", include critical criteria separate and distinct from score that fails the shooter when the safety is not deactivated on presentation or reactivated upon holstering, and during whatever other task you like (i.e. movement). I like requirements to shoot two (or more) consecutive runs, rather than allowing the wind to be at their back for one. I like system specific critical criteria here rather than a higher raw score. In my experience, intentional shooting, marksmanship, accuracy aren't where the problems lie with average/cop 1911 bearers.

[Depmur]

One of the problems I see are those people who think a specific COF is needed for the 1911. My Department issues the Glock 22 and has for the past 20 years I think. We have always had an approved weapon list that includes Sig, Beretta, S&W, H&K and then several years back Colt, Springfield Armory and Kimber were added. Our COF is designed around our issue pistol, if you carry something that doesn't have 15 rounds in the magazine you need to be aware and keep your pistol hot. I carried a Sig 220 for about 14 years and then transitioned to a 1911 8 years ago, I've never had an issue with the COF designed for the G22. The biggest problem I have seen in our transition course is forgetting to take the thumb safety off and unreliable pistols. People think because they have purchased the latest bestest 1911 that LAPD, the FBI or the Marine Corp carries that they are ready for duty. That's not always the case when they buy the $9.99 magazines from EBay to go with the pistol. I also think there are better duty pistols than the 1911 for most officers but I also think it is a great pistol for some officers. Of course I am sitting here typing this with a Glock 30S on my belt...