Variable Power Scopes (what does the money buy you?)

[SecondsCount]

There is absolutely no comparison between the pst and the NF, unless all you do is shoot on a well lit range for fun.

In low light the NF blows the pst away. For resolution (PID) the NF blows the pst away. For durability under sometimes unforseen circumstances the NF blows the pst away. And then there are all the things that F2S said.

A few friends and I have gone through right around 10 pst scopes. As in broken right around 10. Never tried to break a scope, never abused it. Just used it on the range. Never broke a NF.

I can't say this clearly enough, and I don't meant o sound rude at all. Anyone who thinks that a pst and a NF are at all similar, has never run a NF.

Quoted for truth. You get what you pay for.

In the late 90's I was getting neck deep into varmint hunting and purchased a Nightforce Benchrest scope over another well made American product. At the time I owned a couple Simmons target scopes which were made in the Phillipines. The difference was amazing. While the Simmons scopes cost about 20% of the Nightforce and never gave me an issue on the 223 rifles they were mounted, the Nightforce is so much clearer and the controls are precise.

A couple years ago I was getting into long range shooting and wanted something with a FFP reticle. It had been a long time since I had purchased a scope and my research led me to the Vortex line so I purchased a 6-24 PST FFP Mil. So far it has been a good scope but it is definitely not a Nightforce. I do have a Vortex 1-4 Razr on my AR that I got a good deal on used but still about double what a low cost 1-4 would be.. The glass is very nice and the controls are solid.

I handled the Nightforce ATACR at SHOT and was very impressed. Probably going to be my next scope.

[frozentundra]

I have been looking into this question lately(what does the money buy?) while researching what low power variable to buy for my purposes. One of the most useful resources for me has been the website opticsthoughts.com . There is a section on riflescopes, and in that section is long article titled "Riflescope Fundamentals". As I understand it, the author(who runs the site) works in the electro-optical engineering field, is an avid shooter, a moderator over at SWFA's optics forum, and does a lot of optics reviews. There are also some videos laying out his thoughts about his trip to SHOT show this year as an optics guy.

The Riflescope Fundamentals article is written for somebody new to get up to speed, but also goes into a lot of detail on topics like design, build quality, durability, components, value for money, all sorts of other stuff. I learned a great deal.

[Unobtanium]

If it were 1994, I'd probably be in full agreement with you.
The daylight clarity of Kahles/Swaro/S&B is generally good, but not applicably better than NF, Leupold, or USO of recent manufacture.
Leupold in particular has stood out as upping their game from basically rebranded hunting scopes to truly world-class tactical optics. When the full balance of the Mk6 3-18x (not what this thread is about, but most applicable to the comment being discussed) is compared to the similar offerings from Europe, the Mk6 stands head and shoulders above in every aspect that actually makes a difference.

Whenever possible, given similar performance and price, I prefer to use products that are built by Americans.
You would be surprised by how many companies try to dance around where their optics are made.

I am a fan of the H27D and H59 reticles.

Other testing involving night vision devices also sways me toward specific manufacturers.

My main observation was regarding field of view and how little diopter shift the euro optics had compared to the mk6 1-6. Clarity? They see all g2g.

speaking of American made...how do you feel the vcog stacks up in your book and as compared to what? Just curious as yo7 have more real world use to draw on. Ty!

[SLG]

Out of curiosity what broke?

The reticles. Every time.

As an aside, optical clarity is nice, but is one of the least important aspects of a high end, fighting oriented scope. Ruggedness, accurate subtensions, accurate, repeatable turrets are all more important than optical clarity. The older NXS scopes are way better than the pst in optical clarity, but where they really shine over almost every other scope out there is in their fidelity. Ask for a .1mil adjustment and that's what you get. Ask for a 15mil adjustment and that's what you get. Everytime, all the time. Almost no other scope maker can say that. Some of that capability is beyond the discussion here (1-4X carbine optics), but when you look at long range weapons, it is waaaay more important than nice glass. The new NF scopes also have incredible glass, btw.

[Little Creek]

There is absolutely no comparison between the pst and the NF, unless all you do is shoot on a well lit range for fun.

In low light the NF blows the pst away. For resolution (PID) the NF blows the pst away. For durability under sometimes unforseen circumstances the NF blows the pst away. And then there are all the things that F2S said.

A few friends and I have gone through right around 10 pst scopes. As in broken right around 10. Never tried to break a scope, never abused it. Just used it on the range. Never broke a NF.

I can't say this clearly enough, and I don't meant o sound rude at all. Anyone who thinks that a pst and a NF are at all similar, has never run a NF.

I just bought two NF SHV scopes with illuminated MOAR reticles: 4-14x56 and 5-20x56. The first to stretch my DDM4V11 S2W and the latter to stretch my 308 bolt gun. I hear the glass in these scopes is as good as the more expensive NF scopes, but the SHV scopes are not "overbuilt" as the more expensive NF scopes. I know the serious guys would not have a MOAR reticle, but it is best choice for me in an affordable, for me, NF long range scope. Does you above statement about NF scopes hold for the SHV series?

[SLG]

I just bought two NF SHV scopes with illuminated MOAR reticles: 4-14x56 and 5-20x56. The first to stretch my DDM4V11 S2W and the latter to stretch my 308 bolt gun. I hear the glass in these scopes is as good as the more expensive NF scopes, but the SHV scopes are not "overbuilt" as the more expensive NF scopes. I know the serious guys would not have a MOAR reticle, but it is best choice for me in an affordable, for me, NF long range scope. Does you above statement about NF scopes hold for the SHV series?

The SHV's are fantastic scopes. they lack some of the features of the tactical line, but they do not lack the ruggedness in any way. The clicks are not as crisp, but they track just as accurately. The reticle options are not there yet, but the reticles are the same spec as the others. If you can live with an moa scope, the SHV's are the bomb. I want a mil reticle really badly, and as soon as that is available, I will have more than a couple of SHV's.

[El Cid]

If I was looking to pay mk6 prices I'd probably go with the Z6i

If you ever want some trigger time with a Z6i just say the word.

[iakdrago]

The reticles. Every time.

The tracking on the reticle or the reticle itself? I thought the PST line had an etched reticle?

[SLG]

Sorry, I was not clear. The reticle is etched (afaik), but the lens that it is etched on is cheaply bonded, or not bonded at all, and it comes loose under recoil. I may have the technical details on that slightly off, as it has been years since I addressed the issue, so I will check and make sure that my explanation is correct. On a NF, they ensure that problems like that are not going to happen.



edited to add: I verified that I was remembering it correctly and I was. Some of the early-ish PST's had wire reticles, other were etched. I don't know which I had, but Vortex does not bond their reticle module, and it will come loose. A simple test to show NF superiority - take your bare scope and drop it one foot onto a hard surface. Or take your scoped rifle and drop it from whatever height you want. The Vortex will go TU almost immediately. The NF will just go higher and higher.

There are lots of nice looking scopes out there, and glass prescriptions are great these days. IMO, and to steal a line from a friend, NF has cracked the code on how to ruggedize a precision instrument.

[Failure2Stop]

We have NF optics that are easily 7 years old, with documented hundreds of thousands of round on them each. They do eventually break, but they do their job.
I'm personally in preference of the Leupy options, but NF makes a nice scope.

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Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff