Shot Cadence

[Ptrlcop]

I think that it is an accepted fact that shooting to a cadence(consistent splits) is important for maxing scores on certain drills such as an el prez or bill drill.

I suck at this, particularly on the el prez where my transitions are longer than my splits by a good margin. I want to improve on this, but I have a nagging feeling that I am putting effort into gaming drills and that the skill I am training is not terribly relevant to the type of shooting I am training for.

Is there an application for being to have spits=transitions in the real world? I understand that having good transitions and good splits are important, but is it important for them to be similar.

In the real world it seems that by the time you have shot your first target the world has probably changed. I probably need to relocate that next threat, and then reevaluate if it is still a threat before I can start shooting again. This does not seem similar to mindlessly transitioning to a threat evenly spaced 1 yard to the right of the first(like in the el prez).

Discussion on what the el prez (or similar drills) teach us may answer some of my questions. I am aware that these are drills and are not meant to be tactical scenarios.

[Failure2Stop]

I think that it is an accepted fact that shooting to a cadence(consistent splits) is important for maxing scores on certain drills such as an el prez or bill drill.

I suck at this, particularly on the el prez where my transitions are longer than my splits by a good margin. I want to improve on this, but I have a nagging feeling that I am putting effort into gaming drills and that the skill I am training is not terribly relevant to the type of shooting I am training for.

Is there an application for being to have spits=transitions in the real world? I understand that having good transitions and good splits are important, but is it important for them to be similar.

In the real world it seems that by the time you have shot your first target the world has probably changed. I probably need to relocate that next threat, and then reevaluate if it is still a threat before I can start shooting again. This does not seem similar to mindlessly transitioning to a threat evenly spaced 1 yard to the right of the first(like in the el prez).

Discussion on what the el prez (or similar drills) teach us may answer some of my questions. I am aware that these are drills and are not meant to be tactical scenarios.

There is a difference between seeing and shooting, however, properly executing the seeing bit will help with not only shooting, but threat discrimination as well.
Running a plate rack at a distance that bridges the gap on target/sight focus is a good step beyond the el-prez.
Are you shooting the El-Prez clean every run? Do you know if it was clean before looking at the shot-holes?
If not, you are out-running your headlights for what seems to be your desired skill-set.
If the goal is to get fast at the el-prez, you have to be willing to miss, have to be willing to push until the wheels come off, to get faster.

If the goal is to reduce and then acquire and assess following potential threats, here are some variations you can do:

Standard El-Prez, but with 4 targets. While the shooter's back is turned, have assistant attach a threat indicator (pic of gun, knife, RPG, whatever) to three of the targets, and on one attach a no-shoot indicator (hands, badge, donut, whatever).
Any shot not in the "A" zone is made-up, or time does not count.
For every shot on a no-shoot, assistant tases you for 1 second.

Same as above, but all head-shots.

Same as above, but all head-shots before the reload.

Same as above, but bracket 1 or 2 of the threat targets with no-shoots (forcing "C", "A" or head-shots).

[JustOneGun]

Two ideas: first, if you like to game then there is nothing wrong with being good at the standardized drills they shoot. It sounds like you have already put that drill in perspective. You are gaining shooting and manipulation skills but the targeting skills you are practicing on are mostly for gaming. Not the end of the world.

Second, you can try to increase your real life targeting speed to match your gamer drill speed with practice as Failuretostop suggests. As a police trainer I did the el prez on steroids. This gave the same benefit of manipulation while making the student see the target. I just varied the targets each time. Smaller targets mixed with standard size. Vary distance between the targets. Vary the distance from shooter to target.

As an aside and because I am a sadistic bast++)) For gamers I would often vary the size of the targets along with the distance to effectively make it the standardized el prez drill. I would put the larger sized targets farther and the standard sized closer. Visually the student should have seen that they could have run the standard el prez just like they used to do on the weekend. But their brains just couldn't handle it. They always shot slower. I would then tell them what I did and ask them to shoot it like they used to do. They would shoot a great time just like they did on the weekend game.

[GJM]

Robbie Leatham is a world class gamer.

I have watched him demo for three days since December. On most drills, his split speeds get faster as he shoots more shots. His transitions are slower than successive shots on the same target, since he insists on stopping the gun on most transitions. His splits are not crazy fast.

He calls the shot before he jerks the trigger, without watching the sight lift (unless he is firing successive shots on the same target).

In relative terms, he shoots close targets slow and far targets fast. He most often shoots for A's but not to guarantee A's. He possesses a speed control that allows him to shoot from the mechanical limit of firing with no aiming all the way down to bullseye speed.

None of this has seemed to hold him back over the last thirty years.

[Mr_White]

I think of the idea that 'splits times should match transition times' more narrowly than I think I am reading in your post.

Transitions and splits being equal under 'on-demand' conditions – so a match, a test, or field use – would be the mark of a person with particularly well-developed transitions. Transitions will factually take longer than splits under many circumstances. And this addresses the issue purely from the technical perspective. If decisionmaking is included in the transition process I would really think that transition time will frequently, but not always, go way up from where it is purely at the technical level.

In practice/training, using the audible device of 'cadence' to make splits and transitions roughly equal, then drive them both down together, is the hallmark of the Blake Drill, which specifically works on making transitions better. That's just a training scheme for that drill, and it is very effective. I don't know of anyone who asserts that a person should shoot to a cadence, or have their splits and transitions equal even in a match situation, let alone a self-defense incident. The shooting should be done based on making decisions and reading the sights or other visual reference. The times will be whatever they end up being.

[rob_s]

Personally, I think the cadence thing (plate racks, 2x2x2, 1-5 drill, etc.) are more about being tools to require you to push your speed and sight acquisition than they are about "real world" skills. Pushing them to failure and knowing what your failure point is are important IMO. That said I have proven on a timer more than once with more than one group of people that shooting those drills to a cadence will result in faster overall times than shooting hammers, or controlled pairs, or whatever. often a listener will think that the cadence shooter is slower overall because his splits may all be 0.35 seconds while a hammer shooter may have .15 (same target) and .75 (target transition) times that average out to be slower than the consistent cadence shooter.

[Leroy]

I have never heard anybody say that it is accepted fact that you must have equal split and transition times on el prez. I have never personally seen it in a match or on video that I am aware of. I have pursued this greatly and have yet to come close. The best transitions I have managed on el prez are in the 0.3 second range with splits as low .17-.18. I don't know if I can ever manage to get transitions that fast. Open guns may be different.
Mr. White is correct in that cadence shooting is a training tool often associated with the Blake drill.
Now I have heard that back when the el prez was created the goal was to have an even cadence between shots......this was when a 10 second el prez was considered fast.
I could see fast transitions helping with LEO/Mil people with moving targets and clearing structures, if you are clearing a space and you see a target at 90° that is essentially a transition without the first bang.

[Rick Finsta]

Straight cadence training is a way to teach your brain how fast you can shoot for a given sight picture. Matching splits to transitions (or at least trying) on things like plate racks or an el prez is a great way to push your transitions faster, to find your failure point and then you can dial it back, work back up, etc.

It's obviously absurd to think you can transition targets 15 yards apart as fast as your splits will be on those targets if they are 15 yards distant from you, but for close transitions (plate racks, standard el prez) it can be a benchmark for "how much time do I have between shots" (cadence - based on sight picture) and "can I fit my transition entirely into that time?"

Stretch the distance from the shooter in my example to 50 yards; is it absurd to think of making 15 yard wide transitions in the split times for a 50 yard distant target?

To me, it is about figuring out if you're wasting time somewhere in your transitions. I've been wrong before!

BTW, are you going to be at the POD class in May at DCLETC?

[Ptrlcop]

I will not be At the POD class but I am working on hosting a few classes down at our range this year, still working out the details.


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[Jared]

For me, it's actually easier to get my splits and transitions to match at longer distances than at 7 or 10, yards. This comes from two things, less temptation to double tap and less actual swing between targets. As a gaming tool, Blake Drills are awesome, but I just dunnonabout real world SD type stuff. I would fully expect the transition in that situation to also include a decision on whether or not lethal force is still needed, and as such, I seriously doubt you would get equal splits and transitions in that case