If I had a job where a portion of it involved pointing a pistol at people and I got to the pick the pistol, a P30 LEM would be in my holster. The compromise for the "more margin for error" that LEM offers both when pointing a gun at someone and during drawing and holstering is a pistol that is harder to shoot accurately at speed. Several years with LEM has improved my shooting with DA/SA and SFA platforms. My only issue with the P30 LEM is my inability to detail strip and assemble. My dream pistol is a a P30 LEM that can be detail stripped and assembled with a single punch.
That’s not correct. The only time the trigger pull is heavy like a normal double action pull is if the hammer drops (pre-cocked internal hammer piece becomes uncocked) but the slide doesn’t cycle to recock the internal hammer piece. That only normally happens if you have a failure to fire. It’s the double strike capability of the LEM system. If you pull the trigger and the pistol and ammunition function as they should, the action of the pistol will recock the internal components and the trigger pull will continue being light.
This tends to confuse people in dry fire if they don’t know to cycle the slide after a trigger press. The first pull is the normal LEM pull (light weight but long trigger stroke) but the next pull is heavy like a traditional DAO gun.
My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
Okay, I laughed out loud at this.
Here's some best of LEM reading to catch up.
Why I like the LEM as a "street trigger" - Darryl Bolke
Why the P30 - Ernest Langdon
Pistol-Training.com P30 Thursday - Todd Green
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
Why is this a bad thing? Many people of both genders can’t comfortably run a 92F( thus the Vertec). An agency should be commended for adapting the equipment to the users.
Back to topic- I’m curious how many of those class NDs were from students using unfamiliar guns.
My anecdotal experience as an RSO is most “normal folk” carry a pocket gun for the 1 in 10 times they do CCW. They never wear full size pistols unless they’re at the range or a class. Since most training courses mandate a service caliber pistol, folks bring the 9mm Glock , order ammo + holster and figure they’re good to go. Then after a week of intensive training , handling a gun they’ve basically never used seriously prior to the course...mental fatigue hits and BAM!
While there’s solid reasons behind making people bring “real guns” to classes, I wonder if there isn’t a good argument for holding pocket gun courses using .22LR and up. Training people to use a gun they’ll never carry doesn’t seem to make much sense, whereas training around the pocket gun they’ll actually wear makes more sense ( even if it’s not as macho).
The Minority Marksman.
"When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
-a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.
No, it is not like DA/SA. it is a short pull DAO, "pre-set" with a long take up. Think of it as hammer fired version of a Glock "Safe Action."
To simplify this, the LEM pull is the same every shot when the internal hammer is cocked.
The LEM has a long take up/ slack without any real resistance then you hit the "wall" of the actual trigger pull.
DA implies the "double action" of pulling the trigger and that same action cocking the hammer or striker. The slack is really not DA because it is not doing anything else. The cocked internal hammer has already pre-set that part of the cycle.
In practice most people don't fully release the slack and run it as a short DAO.
If the round fails to fire, and the internal hammer is not cocked by the slide cycling, the system defaults to a true DAO allowing a second strike capability.
That probably sounds pretty weird. The LEM concept was based on studies by the FBI and German Police agencies indicating that length of pull was more significant in preventing unintentional trigger pulls than weight.
The LEM is "it's own animal." it requires dedicated practice. DA Revolver shooting helps but otherwise if you want to be good with an LEM you need to stick to LEM only. If you try to switch back and forth between LEM and other trigger systems you will get very frustrated.
One instructor not far from me has trained a number of people on (tiny drum roll please) the Ruger SR22... and for some of the same reasons you mention.
My wife's SR22 has a DA pull that would qualify as "robust," but she likes it well enough to WANT to practice with it. With CCI Mini Mags and reasonable maintenance, it is pretty reliable, though some ammo and/or a build up of rimfire blowback gunk can bring it to grief. I have said my piece to her about carrying such a thing, but it beats nothing.
gn