And here stupid ol' me thought it was training and practice, but it ends up its actually just the action of the pistol.Originally Posted by Trooper224
This reminds me of the Southpark episode about Prius.
Replace Prius with TDA.
Attachment 44415
And here stupid ol' me thought it was training and practice, but it ends up its actually just the action of the pistol.
This reminds me of the Southpark episode about Prius.
Replace Prius with TDA.
Attachment 44415
Last edited by HopetonBrown; 11-04-2019 at 01:55 PM.
Just re-read/read this entire thread. A little more emotional than most p-f threads, but some good discussion.
I have DA/SA, DAO, SFA, LEM and SA action pistols in my collection. Some see far more use than others. What tends to drive the train for me regarding a specific pistol/platform are a number of criteria-some of them frankly situational.
-Reliability
-Accuracy
-Ergonomics (which can overlap into reliability and accuracy)
-Likely venue of use (i.e, duty/threat management, concealed carry, home defense, competition)
-Caliber characteristics
-Familiarity/Ease of Use
-Personal appreciation/enjoyment/challenge/skill building
In considering what I've got, probably the best pistols that I shoot with in my possession are my Ruger P89 (DA/SA), HK VP40 (SFA), Glock G17 (SFA), Beretta 92D (DAO) and FN HP (SA).
For a duty environment where threat management is a crucial factor, my choice may be slanted towards a gun with a longer, more deliberate triggerpull required, such as my P30L LEM or Beretta 92D DAO. For concealed carry or home defense, a shorter, faster action may be deemed desirable (Glock or HK VP SFAs) For hiking or wilderness use, ruggedness, ease of use, and ease of maintenance may be more paramount considerations; also caliber/ammunition selection may drive the choice (i.e., Underwood Lehigh Xtreme cartridges, which I have in .40 and .45 ACP)-Generally, my wilderness gun will be a Glock (Gen4 G22 or G21).
Another factor may be relatively simplicity of use, if there's a possibility that I may have to pass the gun to my wife, who is a non-dedicated shooter; in that case, it'll likely be a Glock or HK VP, where I'm considering the combination of ease of use and relative ergonomics with her physique to be controlling factors (I'm interested to learn her take on my new SIG P230 Compact RX in 9mm; the RDS may be ideal for her, along with the compactness of the gun).
I refer to remain with a specific platform/gun for a protracted period; during the period of use, the gun is expected to fulfill all of my need venues satisfactorily. Over the years, the ones that have consistently seen the heaviest use are my Beretta 92D, Glocks, HK VP40 and P30L; the jury is still out regarding the P320 with its organic RDS. An inbound shroud will ameliorate some of my durability concerns regarding the RDS's suitability for EDC and duty.
Best, Jon
This is more or less how I feel about handgun actions:
I'm not convinced that people outside the training or competition worlds practice enough for the advantages and disadvantages of each mechanism to be noticed.
However, seeing a small trend of striker-to-DA-to-SAO among the handgun enthusiasts here does make me wonder if each mechanism might highlight where the student might be in their their development and where they do good/need work in their own abilities.
Though having come back to B92s recently from Glocks, I am not inclined to think that 1911s are in my future, even if all my fundamentals were in tip-top shape.
Last edited by Yung; 11-04-2019 at 02:30 PM.
I made the switch back to DA/SA guns about eight months ago. I learned to shoot pistols with a CZ sp01 and a 75 compact, first carry gun was a CZ RAMI so DA/SA was what I was familiar with from the get go. the DA/SA action is what I used when I first started competing as well. at some point I switched over to a striker fired gun for my edc and competition. I did this believing it would maybe make me a bit faster or more accurate or something.... it did not. shooting SFA I noticed zero increase in speed or accuracy in my shooting compared to my DA/SA guns. After two years with a SFA gun I decided to switch back to DA/SA because I missed the platform. going back to DA/SA I found my first shot from concealment was faster than with a SFA gun. I believe this is due to being able to start my trigger prep earlier in my draw stroke. DA\SA guns also give me more peace of mind carrying AIWB, I shoot competitions from concealment with my carry gear so im holstering and drawing from AIWB more than the average bear to begin with. In my circle of friends who are very into shooting I don't know if any of us use a SFA gun now that i think of it...
most SFA guns are less expensive, perceived to be more durable (that is debatable obviously), and generally more user friendly than other options on the market. knowing that the vast majority of the gun owning population has at best a passing interest in firearms and will go out and shoot once maybe twice a year i can see how the SFA has been the go to option for a majority of people.
We often point to the dominance of TDA guns in some competition, but I've wondered if USPSA Production rules were changed to permit single action starts whether competitors using CZ/TZ models would continue using the DA mode? Or would cocked and locked quickly become the standard? Would 1911 style pistols experience a resurgence in the sport?
DA/SA guns dominate Production Division (CZ and TZ account for almost 70% of shooters combined at Nationals), but I'm not sure I'd attribute their popularity to the fact that those are TDA guns. CZ is not nearly as dominant in Limited Division, for example, where cocked and locked pistols are permitted (STI is the most popular make in this Division, accounting for ~40% of shooters at Nationals, compared to 10% for CZ/TZ). Heavy steel guns with light triggers are very shootable. Striker guns are practically synonymous with lightweight polymer.
Interesting to watch companies like SIG try to make their polymer striker fired guns heavier...
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
Production rules certainly play a big role in the Shadow2 being so popular in USPSA right now. I do think a light, short SA trigger offers an advantage over a long, light DA pull--especially for those 1st shot 25yd mini poppers. For sure, a super-light trigger on an Open gun is going to be a competitive advantage.
I like the current USPSA Production rules because there is a fairly even playing field. Metal TDA guns and polymer striker guns are all competitive in the division. I also really like being able to compete with (S2's) and carry (P07's) similar guns.
I'd be ok with a trigger weight restriction, like IPSC.
Last edited by Clusterfrack; 11-04-2019 at 06:16 PM.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
How much time does one need to prep the trigger? You draw was slower before because you weren't prepping a striker gun early enough to bresk the shot at extension?
yeah that seems about right. I know its a training thing but i don't think I was getting on the trigger early enough with the striker gun. that could have contributed to my less consistent shot placement when compared to DA\SA as well...idk. im shure its a me problem and has nothing to do with the SFA. its my familiarity and proficiency with the DA/SA sistem that pulls me toward it.
I'm semantic and don't like it. Because 1911s and 2011s and TSOs, etc. are all production (i.e., made on an assembly line) firearms. So, to me, it's disingenuous to categorize them as not production, because of their trigger type. I get why they do it that way, but the language is wrong and that irritates me to no end (again...semantic).
I do think the "Carry Optics" classifications are total bullshit. A Walther PPQ 5" with a Deltapoint is a Carry Optics gun, but a STI Staccato-P Duo is an "open" gun. They're barely any damn different, both have 3# triggers, 4-5" barrels, shoot 9mm, and have similar capacity. They're practically the same damn gun, except the STI is safer, because it has a safety and a heavy firing pin spring that won't let it inertia fire if dropped.
Reply With Quote