When to get involved.

[JR1572]

Call 911, be a witness. Zimmerman can tell a story...

Truer words have never been spoken.

JR1572

[RevolverRob]

I have pretty firm criteria for getting involved in ANY scenario.

There has to be an attacker, actively attacking someone I know he shouldn't be attacking. Which means I have to KNOW who is good and who is bad. You are in a shopping mall and a guy starts shooting mom and the kids in the food court, that one is a no brainer. You are in a classroom and a guy walks in and starts shooting at students and the instructor, no brainer. You are driving down the road and see a cop getting his ass kicked or shot at, no brainer.

Anything short of that? No. I mean seriously, I gotta see someone DYING or on their way to it, before I am intervening. It's too risky otherwise. I have witnessed domestics, I called the cops, no need for me to get involved beyond that. I have also known people who got trapped by their sheepdog mentality. One guy I know got beaten and mugged, a girl was screaming for help, he ran to her and her partner ambushed him. I gotta see the attacker and victim and see it going down, before I am involved.

[Trooper224]

The situation as described is an excellent scenario in which the average citizen is best off minding their own business.

[Chuck Haggard]

Some said "unless you have a badge", negative, EVEN if you have a badge, off-duty this is not the time to jump in.

Call it in, stay on the phone........

I know of one case where the good guy jumped in and ended up shooting the male half. Both the bad guy and the female half claimed that the off-duty started the whole thing, was out of control, pulled the gun first, etc.

In the given scenario I'd have called in the domestic and stayed on the phone, likely been close by observing and shot the dude when the box cutter came out.

[fixer]

Police are on call, paid, and have back up for these situations. The citizen does not. Unless I see large amounts of blood being drawn, I am going to: 1) call 911, 2) observe, 3) intervene if someone is dying or the guy starts attacking other people with a weapon.

This is the same protocol for all arguments, fights etc. I don't know the background story. I really don't know who the bad guy is or is not--even if the 'victim' is female. Intervention may become option 1 above if the victim is an infant or toddler.

FWIW I have been in this exact situation and did exactly as I described. Even then it was awkward and no fun having the bad guy staring a hole through my head when I'm in a parking lot telling the police he was going MMA on a woman. now the guy knows me, where I live, etc...

My prevailing philosophy on intervening starts from the position that adults can take reasonable measures for self protection. OC, knife, baton, firearm...that they choose not to is NOT my problem. Perhaps the situation they find themselves in will teach them a few things about protection and selecting a better class of associates. Furthermore, the hyper-litigious nature of virtually everyone in the US these days assures me that unless there is a killing spree taking place in front of me, I'm not doing anything besides calling the PD. They have 100x the legal resources that I do should someone get mad that wife-beater is now dead.

[Hambo]

I have pretty firm criteria for getting involved in ANY scenario.

One's firm criteria should be based on state statute for use of deadly force. Laws governing use of force aren't as black and white as the media and other groups portray them.

Most businesses, a lot of public areas, and more and more homes are equipped with cameras. Imagine the video if one were to jump into Paul's scenario before the smackdown. Man and woman appear to be having a discussion (no audio) and all of a sudden someone leaves their car and pump, walks purposefully toward them, and pulls a weapon. Then the pair tells the cops, "this guy came at us with a gun..."

[gtmtnbiker98]

In this scenario, mind your own business.

[Alpha Sierra]

Unless I see large amounts of blood being drawn

How can you know for sure that the one drawing blood is the aggressor? Maybe it's the defender. If the threat isn't direct at me or mine, not my problem.

My prevailing philosophy on intervening starts from the position that adults can take reasonable measures for self protection. OC, knife, baton, firearm...that they choose not to is NOT my problem. Perhaps the situation they find themselves in will teach them a few things about protection and selecting a better class of associates.

My opinion too.

[RoyGBiv]

Even then, i'd phone 911 and stay the heck out of the mix.

I offer this as a word to those thankfully unaware of how abusive relationships work.

Having been on the ground floor of one as a kid,ill just say this-when you see a brusied woman being called names by some kittenhead, remember that she considers that treatment normal!

Its an incomprehensible state of mind-I have trouble reconciling it myself and I was there for the ugly bits growing up-but as far as the woman's concerned, the asshole who regularly assaults her is the Good Guy, and its the world and its standards who are the Bad Guys. How dare the outsiders dictate how he treats her!,he'll say behind closed doors. Note-the kind of kittenhead who beats his spouse also turns into the most lavish gentleman maybe 40% of the time, typically when he senses he's gone too far with the verbal and physical abuse. Then he'll become a gentleman-taking her out, treating her nice, etc.

She starts thinking "maybe this guy isnt an asshole.Maybe he really is just misunderstood, and totally loves me for who I am.If he didn't, he wouldnt be buying me flowers and apologizing right now.He's just a misunderstood soul who needs my love to get on the right track."

We all know what happens next.You might even see it at a gas station while youre pumping fuel.
When it does, she wont think of anyone stopping the guy as a rescuer.Far from it-they'll be the enemies, police WORST of all, because now "society" is interjecting itself into her "fairytale" relationship and assaulting the poor, misunderstood Man of Her Dreams who occasionally has flaws.God help anyone who justifiably injures the SOB -and yes, if he's injured she will have no issues defending the scumbag with her life if that's what it takes.Pressing charges ? He's not a criminal , her brain declares.

The victim's worldview is totally warped-and not very many people have the mental stamina to escape. It took detectives hauling away my mom's abuser on unrelated fraud charges to break the cycle. Forced to start over by circumstances,she re-connected with my family and we slowly emerged from the blackness back into the world.

Ive no doubt had he been arrested in front of her, she would have turned on the police before letting him get hauled off. As a citizen with a CCW permit, I wont dare intervene in a DV situation. Its jacked up, but the best thing to do is call 911-and attach a prayer to the poor souls responding to the call, because they're going to need it.Id go even far enough to say if an abused woman is with her abuser, she's the bigger threat then he is in a confrontation.Youre not just dealing with a man beating up a woman-youre dealing with a psychological drama even trained experts have trouble unraveling. Dont step on that land mine if it can be avoided at any reasonable cost.

Thanks for sharing that.

Real world experiences like that help to alleviate the feeling of "guilt" for not "doing something" in the OP's scenario.

I'm better prepared after having read your post.

[BaiHu]

Thanks for sharing that.

Real world experiences like that help to alleviate the feeling of "guilt" for not "doing something" in the OP's scenario.

I'm better prepared after having read your post.

Agreed. Thanks for sharing.