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Thread: How does one draw from AIWB?

  1. #21
    Gabe, he wants the world to see that thing. Again.

    Sometimes I wonder about that GJM guy.

  2. #22
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #23
    We are diminished
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    So obviously it's difficult to see on a video from far away especially because it's either too fast (dammit, Gabe, slow down! ) or too blurry in slo-mo, but to me it doesn't look like your SH fingers are fully closed around the grip before the gun starts leaving the holster. Though at those speeds it's probably becoming hard to differentiate between one specific step and another.

    edited to add: So taking the two that are most interesting to me given my own recent thoughts on draw strokes, your muzzle level press-out to the head A-zone looks like a different, more complete grip than the one to the body A-zone.

  4. #24
    Member Corlissimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post

    edited to add: So taking the two that are most interesting to me given my own recent thoughts on draw strokes, your muzzle level press-out to the head A-zone looks like a different, more complete grip than the one to the body A-zone.
    Could that be a result of knowing in advance the demands of a more precision based shot (head) vs going to the torso? IOW: Gabe knows before he draws that he'll need a more precise shot location so he establishes a better grip (possibly a subconscious decision based on his training) in order to execute it cleanly.

    If so, what does that say about the relatively more lax grip used for the less demanding shots? Is this process/effect, if real, a bad thing? Or something to work for? (Kind of like following the logic of "see what you need to see")
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  5. #25
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corlissimo View Post
    Could that be a result of knowing in advance the demands of a more precision based shot (head) vs going to the torso? IOW: Gabe knows before he draws that he'll need a more precise shot location so he establishes a better grip (possibly a subconscious decision based on his training) in order to execute it cleanly.

    If so, what does that say about the relatively more lax grip used for the less demanding shots? Is this process/effect, if real, a bad thing? Or something to work for? (Kind of like following the logic of "see what you need to see")
    I wouldn't rule out that I could be doing something different subconsciously, but I certainly wasn't attempting to draw with one grip to a certain target but a different grip to another target. I'd definitely be of the mind that one should draw with The Grip They Use All The Time (Master Grip) rather than varying it according to the shot at hand. There may be an element of getting away with a bad grip in some situations, but I don't think that should be the goal. Everything is underpinned by grip. Aiming, pressing the trigger, index, transitions, security of the grip, all of it. All parts of shooting will be aggravated and more difficult and probably slower and/or less accurate with a suboptimal grip.

    More thoughts in a minute...
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
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  6. #26
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    So obviously it's difficult to see on a video from far away especially because it's either too fast (dammit, Gabe, slow down! ) or too blurry in slo-mo, but to me it doesn't look like your SH fingers are fully closed around the grip before the gun starts leaving the holster. Though at those speeds it's probably becoming hard to differentiate between one specific step and another.

    edited to add: So taking the two that are most interesting to me given my own recent thoughts on draw strokes, your muzzle level press-out to the head A-zone looks like a different, more complete grip than the one to the body A-zone.
    I went back and looked at that video again too. Doesn't show any of the thumb stuff we were talking about before, unfortunately. I see what you are saying in a couple of instances that the gun seems to start rising a tiny, tiny fraction earlier than in other instances. I personally think that's just small variation from one rep to the next, and as you said it does become hard to tell one specific step from another – edges get rounded off. I had a hard time telling any difference in grip acquisition between the muzzle-level upper and lower A draws myself.

    Maybe this will help clarify and frame what we can see in the video: I took a few pictures of the way I form my strong hand as it is headed toward the grip. Basically I make a little gun shape, with thumb flagged and trigger finger already straight as if to say pew pew pew, and the other fingers semi-curled. I slam that mofo onto the gun's grip and it fits into the pocket you can see between my palm and fingers. The two physical/tactile reference points I am looking for to 'know' my grip is where it needs to be is to feel my Glock knuckle slam into the bottom of the trigger guard and feel the lower part of my palm on the lower end of the backstrap.

    I think there's minimized time riding the gun in the holster before lifting with my arm because there is very little finger curling/hand closing around the grip that needs to happen. Just a tiny, tiny amount. It's mostly already done by virtue of the shape I form with my hand. I think that little bit of final finger curling is where we might be seeing the gun seeming to rise a tiny bit as I'm closing my hand around the grip, rather than from lifting the gun with my arm. That part happens a tiny fraction later. Video review is great to try seeing things that are hard to self-perceive when you are doing them.

    Bottom line for me at this point is that my draw feels relatively vetted within the environments available to me – training and competition – and I really like the performance level it produces and I'm pretty happy with it. There's always more vetting, more study, more practice, and more tendinitis therapy to be had though...

    [img]20150203_082900 by OrigamiAK, on Flickr[/img]

    [img]20150203_082839 by OrigamiAK, on Flickr[/img]

    [img]20150203_083220 by OrigamiAK, on Flickr[/img]
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    I see what you are saying in a couple of instances that the gun seems to start rising a tiny, tiny fraction earlier than in other instances. I personally think that's just small variation from one rep to the next, and as you said it does become hard to tell one specific step from another – edges get rounded off.
    ...
    The two physical/tactile reference points I am looking for to 'know' my grip is where it needs to be is to feel my Glock knuckle slam into the bottom of the trigger guard and feel the lower part of my palm on the lower end of the backstrap.
    That's exactly what I think I'm seeing: your pinky (and perhaps other fingers) not being closed around the grip before the gun starts to rise from the holster, at least in some instances. So you may very well have those two points of reference but not what I think of as a "master grip." I'm in no position to judge whether it's compromised to a point where it could be a problem. Personally, I err on the side of as certain a grip as possible because the variables I cannot control (being injured, being jostled, etc.) are the ones that could cause a problem on the draw.

    I certainly can't argue that you're hampering the speed of your draw. It's amazing.

  8. #28
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Well, I'll tell you that I was surprised on those few reps to see the gun move before the fingers were completely done moving. So hooray for video review. It's not intentional and I don't really like it. I've not found it to be any actual problem and I don't expect it to become one, but it definitely gives me something to pay attention to in practice. I'll see if I can figure out why it happens sometimes and not others, and try to get rid of it. I don't think it has to cost any time, just needs technique tightened up a little.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  9. #29
    Gabe you're a machine dude.

  10. #30
    Member Corlissimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    Well, I'll tell you that I was surprised on those few reps to see the gun move before the fingers were completely done moving. So hooray for video review. It's not intentional and I don't really like it. I've not found it to be any actual problem and I don't expect it to become one, but it definitely gives me something to pay attention to in practice. I'll see if I can figure out why it happens sometimes and not others, and try to get rid of it. I don't think it has to cost any time, just needs technique tightened up a little.
    IIRC correctly, I remember reading a post here somewhere, sometime back about someone who was using a "pinch" type grip to draw a P2KSK from a low ride AIWB rig. There was video too. It actually seemed fairly effective, and I know that I've done similarly with the same type of setup. Possibly there's some of that happening when the gun starts moving prior to your fingers fully closing around the grip?

    I get what you mean about striving for the full and proper master grip prior to drawing, and that the "edges are rounded" when looking at the vids. Either way, I have to agree with SN: You're a frickin' machine.

    This is really a great thread for helping me understand some of the nuances I've been missing in analysis of my own draw. Thanks to all for the insights!
    If you can't taste the sarcasm, try licking the screen.

    Gettin’ old and blind ain’t for sissies. ~ 41Magfan

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