Advice on joining the military

[Suvorov]

OK, TONS of great information added since my first $.02. Not really much to add especially since you are now steering towards an SF MOS. I'll just add a couple more bits of perspective.

1) As I mentioned, I got my degree in Mechanical Engineering. Worked my ass off for it like all Engineers do and had to repeat a Calculus class or two along the way. I passed my EIT in the Fall of 1995 and headed off to Officer Basic School never to do an integration again. After 2 years running around ADT, I went into the guard, caught the flying bug (part of the reason I went military to begin with) and started building my time for my "dream job." Now almost 20 years later, my "dream job" has turned into a sort of nightmare and all my friends who are engineers are making a hell of a lot more than I, spending every evening at home with their kids, and have been able to lay down the roots that guys in the AD side of the house just can't do. In short they have the stable kind of life that a 40 something with kids needs to have. But the suck of the matter is - my Engineering Degree is WORTHLESS today. There is no way I could get a job as an engineer now so in essence, all that hard work went down the tubes. Keep that in mind. You have mentioned that if you went AD, you would plan on returning to an engineer career, but if you are out for long enough time, there may not be any going back.

2) I have a couple friends that tried out for our local ParaRescue Guard Unit. Although they were technically part timers, the amount of time they had to spend for the training required to make it into a National Guard Special Ops unit was essentially a full time commitment. Others here are far better qualified to tell you just how hard the training will be, but it will be far from a walk in the park. In the end, one of my friends got injured and hung it up and the other decided to get out and concentrate on his Chiropractor business instead. Both were top notch guys. Not at all suggesting that you won't make it, just telling you that there will be a lot more commitment required than most people could ever realize.

I know that my posts have been kind of "glass is half empty" with a lot of warnings about the pitfalls on the route you are contemplating. But know this, going into the Army was the single best decision that I have ever made and would do it again (although maybe a little differently).

I am kind of curious, what do your parents think of your going into the military?

[JRB]

Look, I really hesitated to respond to this but I'm going to do it anyway. If you want to talk off line please hit me up on a PM. It's obvious that you're really unhappy with the military and that's okay. I don't know you and I don't know your unique situation but I do care about a fellow brother in arms and I'm here if you need someone to blow of steam to. You volunteered and it didn't work out the way you hoped. I'm truly sorry it worked out that way for you. There are however, thousands of people out there that are very happy with their military careers.

No one deserves bad leadership but it happens. No one deserves to die or to be maimed for life, physically or psychologically, serving their country. I think if you talked to most of the individuals that came back from combat zones though you would find out that the majority of them do not share your perspective.

If your drill weekends suck and you're stuck in a chair all weekend do something about it. Run training ideas up your chain of command. If you have time, grab a TM and a group of guys and train on something. Use the experience you gained from deployments and train new guys on warrior tasks. Teach the new guys how to stay safe in bad places. If no one listens and you aren't given time to do anything other than death by powerpoint then let your recruiting and retention NCO and Sergeant Major know that you are getting out and why. Be tactful and respectful so they will take you seriously. Retention is a huge deal right now. If your unit is going to lose you they deserve to know why and they need to fix the problem.

Finally brother, learn to control what you can control. We can't do anything about the ding bats in Washington. My first hitch in the military started in 1991 and I can tell you things are much better now than they were then. Not the political environment mind you but neither one of us can do anything about that anyway.

I'm a coach and I tell my athletes that the only thing we can control is attitude and effort. Strive to be the best at those two things.

I do appreciate what you're trying to do, and that you're offering your advice in good spirits, but it's rather patronizing on many levels. I have done all of the things you've recommended, repeatedly, up to and including IG involvement at the group level. Nothing changed, but not because a lot of the problems I've encountered weren't flagrantly in violation of numerous AR's. All that is left for me at this point is to transfer and re-class as far away as possible if I re-up, or drop my IRR packet and be finally done with it all.

I was very candid and direct in those posts, yes. Please do not mistake that for any lack of professionalism or strict adherence to proper customs and courtesies when they're called for. Also, do not mistake my words for those of someone that is negative by choice or one of those soldiers that just loves to bitch and moan all the time. /snarkon I received my MRT (Mental Resilience Training) block of PowerPoint instruction from a master MRT instructor within the past six months, and tested well on the GAT though it tells me I drink too much /snarkoff

I realize I'm in rarefied air on this forum and a lot of folks here got to do some seriously hi-speed shit away from the problems, bureaucracy, and incompetence of big Army. I was not so fortunate. It is easy to wax eloquent about how cool it was to do all that hi-speed recruiting-video stuff when the future SM in question has an incredibly real chance of ending up somewhere totally different from what he wants - in which case he will end up in big Army, and he will know the BS of which I speak so candidly and unprofessionally.

You are right in that we can't control the political environment. That is all the more reason for Duke to seriously consider just who's going to be calling the shots, and deciding where and how that check he's writing his life on just might get cashed... and to what end. But we must converse in different circles of veterans and fellow SM's that saw very different things - very few deployed SM's and vets I know would disagree with anything I've posted so far.

At this point, though, this discussion has done exactly what I didn't want it to do, in that we're talking about my experience with the Army instead of focusing it on Duke's consideration of military service with first-hand and knowledgeable advice. If any further discussion on this is warranted, please PM me instead of further posting in this thread.

I do wish Duke well and if he does choose to join anyway, I genuinely hope he beats the odds and stays happy with his sweetheart and ends up doing what he wants to do.

[Odin Bravo One]

It is easy to wax eloquent about how cool it was to do all that hi-speed recruiting-video stuff when the future SM in question has an incredibly real chance of ending up somewhere totally different from what he wants - in which case he will end up in big Army, and he will know the BS of which I speak so candidly and unprofessionally.

And that is the risk we take.

No different than anyone who takes the plunge into a job and it does not pan out the way they wanted or expected it it to pan out.

Not happy with that, we leave and look for something else.

It is not an Army only phenomenon.

[Super77]

Look into an Army 18X contract. Pm me if you have any questions, I'll talk you ear off on the subject.

[GardoneVT]

Not happy with that, we leave and look for something else.

Beware the "undermanned" career designator. Should the OP end up in one, the only leave he'll be taking will be the official kind.

[ranger]

NG retirement - draw at age 60 (unless you deployed overseas during GWOT then you draw 30 days early for 30 days in theater. At age 60can fall under TRICARE. Retirement pay based on points, years service, and rank. More things you do = more points. NG retirement is awesome benefit.

Note about SF etc in ARNG. There is a fine line between part time and full time in NG. If you join a high speed low drag NG unit, there is great satisfaction but also great challenge to balance family, civilian job, and military career.

[Duke2424]

Duke2424, there's plenty of military advice in this thread already. But if you were my son or my nephew I'd ask you a few questions. One would be, are you sure you want to get married? The wedding is five months away and you're looking at something that will take you away from that. Second, do you think you made a mistake getting the degree you have? Again, you're new to a career and looking for something else to do. Neither of these should be answered here, but IMO you need to honestly evaluate what's going on in your life. Then do what you want to do.

To get real advise, I've gotta be an open book...........

1) Nothing in this world would make me happier than to marry my fiancee. In my heart, we're already married. We literally do everything a married couple does expect file our taxes jointly and have a marriage certificate. As far as this taking me away from her, it doesn't sound great. But the military is a big goal of mine.......... Unfortunately, that requires sacrifices.

2) I do not believe I made a mistake getting a civil engineering degree, I'm actually quite proud of it. Do I love every aspect of my current job? Nope, I hate sitting at a desk all day. But overall, I like it as a profession and an engineering degree in general is a key that can open many doors. If I were to do it again, I'd get the same degree.

3) As for what I want to do, die a happy man. I'm still trying to figure out the details of that though.

[Duke2424]

All great information Suvorov. Thanks.

I am kind of curious, what do your parents think of your going into the military?

I think JRB hit the nail on the head..........

As a 23 year old degreed engineer with a 10+year sweetheart, he has every single reason NOT to enlist or commission.

My dad just doesn't understand why I would want to do it, not in my situation atleast. Also, he missed the draft for Vietnam by a couple of years but he had alot of friends go. From what I know, several didn't make it back and the ones that did had changed alot. He's never said any of that to me but I suspect it's a fear of his. My mom is alot more understanding, she isn't thrilled with the idea but she gets me and knows that's my dream. She pushes the NG heavily. The typical response I get is something like this: "I support you but I just don't understand it. Think about everything your giving up"

[Duke2424]

I do wish Duke well and if he does choose to join anyway, I genuinely hope he beats the odds and stays happy with his sweetheart and ends up doing what he wants to do.

I appreciate it JRB. I really wish the experience had been more favorable for you.

[Duke2424]

It is easy to wax eloquent about how cool it was to do all that hi-speed recruiting-video stuff when the future SM in question has an incredibly real chance of ending up somewhere totally different from what he wants - in which case he will end up in big Army, and he will know the BS of which I speak so candidly and unprofessionally.

And that is the risk we take.

No different than anyone who takes the plunge into a job and it does not pan out the way they wanted or expected it it to pan out.

Not happy with that, we leave and look for something else.

It is not an Army only phenomenon.

There are defiantly risks and rewards. The way I'm trying to approach it is this: Anything in life that doesn't involve risk and is easy to obtain, isn't worth doing. But as JRB noted, that perspective could come back and bite me.

Beware the "undermanned" career designator. Should the OP end up in one, the only leave he'll be taking will be the official kind.

Duly noted.