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Thread: Current state of the AK

  1. #1
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    Current state of the AK

    Rather than muddy up this thread
    http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...l-AK-Furniture
    I thought I'd start a new thread.

    Since we will probably Now see a resurgence in AK interest, especially since the Magpul involvement and the ALG trigger option correct some of what a lot of us dislike about the AK, but also taking into account more legal restrictions in the last couple of years, what's the state of the AK market?

    Specifically, I'm curious about three things...

    1) what's the 6920 of the AK world? In other words, least expensive option that maintains the most basic of quality standards, reliability, and longevity.

    2) what's the KAC SR15 (or, pick your high-dollar boutique gun)? In other words, the top of the line, has some innovative features, etc. But also maintains the base quality and reliability that matter.

    3) besides Magpul, what's the accessory market doing? Ultimak still the way to go for optic mount? Still putting an Aimpoint Micro on it, or going with one of the screen-type mini optics (like the Leupokd delta point). Options to make the AK work with the new hotness of the 1.x-Y optics? Options for v,sue optics that match the (hopefully still accurate) perception of the AK as value forearm?

  2. #2
    I am sure far more knowledgeable folks will weigh in, but I have liked the arsenal builds for off the shelf options. Have seen moderate to high use on more than a few of them and have been pleased.

    I may just be easy to please when it comes to ak. Having had some truly shit examples overseas, a milled lower with any sort of qa is still luxury...

  3. #3
    Member LHS's Avatar
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    I've been wanting to see some hard-use testing (specifically some return-to-zero testing) of the Saberwerks 13 "KOP". If I'm going to pay to have a gunsmith install it, I want it to work and work well. If it does, then I think it'd be the heat for mounting a MRDS and still having BUIS, as well as for making a 1-6x optic work with the AK without interfering with the folding stock.

    I'm interested in the Magpul stuff, especially if they come out with a version that works with a VEPR/RPK receiver.

  4. #4

    Current state of the AK

    If it is built well, this may be very interesting. M10x

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...tries-m10x-ak/

    It is an AK with a hinged monolithic rail that uses AK parts.

    Edit: Found this spec sheet http://akfiles.com/forums/showpost.p...4&postcount=64
    Last edited by Doug; 01-24-2015 at 04:33 PM.

  5. #5

    Current state of the AK



    I would stick with my Arsenal until proven. Looks like a Sig, don't like the rear stock attachment, need to see the internals.
    Last edited by Doug; 01-24-2015 at 04:29 PM.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    Current state of the AK..........

    Try to make it an AR.

    Spend money, for "upgrades", "improvements", and "compatibility" features far in excess of practical return on investment.

    Brag about guns' performance to people who cannot/will not ever be able to verify claims.

    Find new gun of the month at some point later.

    Repeat process.

  7. #7
    I have several.
    The best BY FAR is the Arsenal SAM 7SF. Mine is a 1MOA gun with Hornady SST. I use an RS Regulate optics mount that uses the factory side rail. It is a full Bulgarian military rifle that mimics the Galil rather than the M4. It is the best of the AK's and not trying to be an AR. The Ambi controls an folder that folds to the right are a big plus along with all milled forged parts and a Steyr cold hammer forged barrel. It is an Ak great at being an AK.

    I have a couple of custom built ones that each have their own roles and are optimized for those roles. One built by a former USMC Armorer to try to pull the best of the Ak qualities and parts combined with some AR stuff is a pretty neat gun and gets the eye raise anytime anyone picks it up.

    AK's to me are straight up car killers, nothing more, nothing less and all are in 7.62x39 in my house. They are simply a tool for a job and not a 5.56 AR or AUG replacement.
    Just a Hairy Special Snowflake supply clerk with no field experience, shooting an Asymetric carbine as a Try Hard. Snarky and easily butt hurt. Favorite animal is the Cape Buffalo....likely indicative of a personality disorder.
    "If I had a grandpa, he would look like Delbert Belton".

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Rather than muddy up this thread
    http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...l-AK-Furniture
    I thought I'd start a new thread.

    Since we will probably Now see a resurgence in AK interest, especially since the Magpul involvement and the ALG trigger option correct some of what a lot of us dislike about the AK, but also taking into account more legal restrictions in the last couple of years, what's the state of the AK market?

    Specifically, I'm curious about three things...

    1) what's the 6920 of the AK world? In other words, least expensive option that maintains the most basic of quality standards, reliability, and longevity.

    2) what's the KAC SR15 (or, pick your high-dollar boutique gun)? In other words, the top of the line, has some innovative features, etc. But also maintains the base quality and reliability that matter.

    3) besides Magpul, what's the accessory market doing? Ultimak still the way to go for optic mount? Still putting an Aimpoint Micro on it, or going with one of the screen-type mini optics (like the Leupokd delta point). Options to make the AK work with the new hotness of the 1.x-Y optics? Options for v,sue optics that match the (hopefully still accurate) perception of the AK as value forearm?
    I've taken quite an interest in AK's, mostly because I really enjoy shooting them for fun, but I also enjoy the wide variety of variants that have been made over the years by so many different countries. Also, from an engineering & production standpoint, the evolution of the AK from the first prototypes in the late 40's through today goes through a huge variety of fundamental changes and paradigm shifts that you really don't find in the history of any other firearms design.

    Keeping the scope of your questions in perspective, I'm not including any consideration of previously-imported variants that are not commercially available through distributors anymore. There are hundreds of other AK variants that have come into this country over the past ~30 years and some of them are very nice, some are very poor.

    1) I'd say the "6920" of AK's is the WASR 10/63. Like any currently imported rifle it was subjected to the 922(r) compliance process, which in the WASR's case included having its magwell milled out by Century arms to accommodate standard AK mags, and being fitted with a Tapco trigger group and other US parts. Plus it lacks the magwell 'dimples' on either side of the receiver that are desired if you're a real AK purist.
    But a WASR 10/63 is easily found in the $500-600 range and accommodates all AKM-pattern accessories and parts, plus features a military CHF barrel, a Russian-style side mount scope rail for properly mounting an optic, and where permitted by law, a 14x1LH threaded muzzle and a bayonet lug.
    Unlike the 6920, though, AK's are still typically made to somewhat sloppier standards, and it's better to buy one from a local gun store for the $100-150 premium so you can personally inspect it for a canted front sight block, canted gas block, canted rear sight block, sloppy furniture fitment, excessive magwell "wobble" etc.
    If you want to try out the new Magpul furniture, I'd go with a WASR 10/63 that passed an inspection for the above-mentioned items.
    Chinese made rifles (both pre and post 89) as well as Yugoslavian/Zastava variants and any milled receiver AK use different furniture than the AKM-standard stuff, so the Magpul parts won't be a drop-in installation, if it's possible to use them at all.

    2) In this category, I'd go with a SAM7 series rifle such as Nyeti's SAM-7SF, or an SLR-107FR, depending on whether you wanted a milled receiver (SAM7) or a stamped receiver (SLR-107FR). On the latter I would specifically recommend only the SLR-107FR, as it includes the side-mount optic rail that the SLR-107F does not, and the SLR-107CR's with the AK100-series style gas system have been known to have some QC/QA issues not found on the FR variants.
    If I were buying an AK to be a one-and-done AK with the intent to use it as a 'working gun' in any capacity, I'd opt for a SAM-7SF just like Nyeti's, even though the right side folding stock and the slight extension to the rear of the receiver needed to accommodate it drive AK purists absolutely nuts. Being able to fold the stock and keep an optic mounted is a big plus for me, as most other side folding AK stocks fold to the left, which requires removing any optic mounted to the receiver rail. This includes the SLR-107FR, unfortunately.
    Also note that the SAM-7 series and SLR 107's all use 24x1.5RH AK74 style muzzle threads that thread on the FSB instead of the barrel itself, just as is found on the AK74 family. The good news is a wide variety of muzzle devices are available for this because of the AK74's increased popularity in the past 5-6 years thanks to the cheap 7N6 ammo imports that got shut down last year.
    If you desire a more traditional AK that can do everything you'd need an AK to do but want a top-shelf rifle, I'd opt for an Arsenal M7-R.

    3) Ultimak is still the way to go for a RDS mount on an AK without a receiver rail. With that, the proven Aimpoint micro works very well, and that's the enduring go-to choice for that role.
    If you have a rifle with a receiver rail (such as any of the rifles I mentioned above) I strongly recommend the RS-Regulate mounts, but the Midwest Industries mounts are also solid. I would use the receiver rail mount in lieu of an Ultimak if one is on the AK in question, unless you've got a left-side folding stock that interferes with the receiver rail, and intend to use the folding stock regularly.

    For variable power optics, the company that bought the rights to the Leatherwood name are making a 1-4x with a BDC specific to 7.62x39 called the CMR-AK762, and that's been well-received and I will probably end up buying one of my own after trying it on a friend's rifle.
    Primary Arms is also working on a lower-cost 1-6x with a x39 BDC but last I checked there's no ETA on that, but it should be about $100 cheaper than the Leatherwood. Trijicon has also released a .300 Blackout ACOG that's rumored to match up very well with most x39 ammo if one uses the 'supersonic' part of the BDC, but I have no first-hand experience with that. In any of the above cases I'd opt for an RS-Regulate mount.

    It's also worth mentioning that Winchester added a 7.62x39 offering to their PDX1 line sometime last year, and while it's substantially more expensive than Hornady SST/Zmax, The PDX-1 would likely be my choice for a 'duty' load in an AK.

    Century Arms has really refocused their interest in the AK market toward 100% US production, specifically with their milled Centurion C39 series and their upcoming 'Red Army Standard' stamped AKM clone. The downside of those weapons and the other AK's manufactured by Century Arms is that no US made barrels are hammer-forged - you will only find hammer-forged barrels in imported models like the Romanian WASR 10, WASR 10/63, and AES-10B, and the Zastava-made Yugo pattern variants like the NPAP & OPAP. Naturally, the Bulgarian Arsenal rifles have outstanding CHF barrels, and the now-blocked Russian imports such as the Saiga and VEPR lines had quality CHF barrels.

    Given the difficulty of replacing the barrel in an AK compared to that of an AR, and given that most AK ammunition uses bimetallic jackets, I strongly recommend against any AK variant with a US made barrel if high round counts are in your future. The good news is that many of them are relatively inexpensive and it wouldn't be difficult to sell a given AK variant that has 3-5k through it as a used gun & replace it with a 'fresh' variant of the same model.
    If that is intended, though, I'd recommend buying 2 or 3 of your chosen variant at the same time, because the availability of any given AK model is somewhat mercurial and tends to change substantially as years pass, so it's likely that your variant of choice won't be available, even after only a year or two.
    Last edited by JRB; 01-25-2015 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Phrasing and clarity.

  9. #9
    Member Hizzie's Avatar
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    I've owned a dozen over the last 7 years or so. The SAM7SF is truly a step above and beyond other AK's. I like the RS mounts too although a buddy has beaten the snot out of a Texas Weapon Systems topcover mount and has no "wandering zero" issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by caleb View Post
    Oh man, that's right. I forgot that some people feel like they need light SA triggers in DA guns instead of just learning to shoot the gun better. You can get a Redhawk DA trigger pull down to 10 lbs, and if you can't manage that you suck and should probably just practice more.
    *RS Regulate Affiliate*

  10. #10
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    I don't doubt that AKs can be accurate enough. Reliable enough. Ergonomic enough. Effective enough. Fun enough.

    I might even have a couple myself. Including the "upgrades", "accessories", & "improvements" versions.

    The collectors, consumed by the countless variations, history, etc. are in a class by themselves.

    But let us be honest with ourselves for a minute. These are not the majority of AKs. Nor are they the majority of AK owners. They are the few and far between. The "state of the AK" in this country is not determined by those who are serious shooters who know the proper role for their various platforms, nor the collectors who relish in the acquisition of a new variant. The bulk are "Bubba" guns, with "Bubba" add-ons, and bullshit claims on the internet with photos that no one will ever be able verify.

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