Press Out/Presentation Drills

[KWil]

I've spent the past year or so focusing on slow fire accuracy and it seems to have paid off. When I started, I struggled to hold a group on a 3x5" at 7 yards. Through a lot of 3x5" drill practice mixed with ball and dummy, I'm at a point where I shot a 93/100 on a B-8 at 25 yards today. So I think it's time to shift my focus towards the speed side of the equation. After shooting that B-8, I started today with press outs to a 3x5" card at 5 yards. Starting with no time pressure, I kept my shots on the card. Once I added even a mild amount of time pressure (say, 2 seconds from high compressed ready) I started showing a tendency to push my shots low to 6 o'clock. I'm not sure if this is trigger snatch, or anticipation of recoil. Obviously I can just aim higher (say slightly above the card), but this strikes me as similar to trying to fix your trigger snatch by drifting your sights. What's a good technique to dial this out? Can ball and dummy be used effectively to work on this?

[ToddG]

B&D can certainly be used. But it may not tell the whole story.

Another common issue people can have with the press-out is nosediving the pistol when it reaches full extension. Don't get caught up on making the Loud Noise the exact nanosecond that the gun reaches full extension. Start by saying to yourself it's ok if it goes off a little early or a little late so long as the sights are where they should be.

[Redhat]

It may be your perception or fixation of time/speed doing you in. Here's an example; back when I taught, we had a reloading time standard that all students had to pass. We would have them practice doing it dry in the classroom before testing them for time. While we were doing the practice runs, I would secretly time them until the whole class could do it under the time limit. Then we announced that the testing would begin and it would be pass/fail. All of a sudden, the same students who minutes before could do it started to fail. Magazines bobbled, fumbling the insertion into the weapon on and on.

What changed???

[Sabre07]

That little buzzer box can produce morons out of competent humans. If you achieved you current level by B&D and you want to move on to a broader application, ride the horse you rode in on. Watch out for the gun sliding up to the stop sign and causing the backseat contents to hit the dashboard. Push it out firmly and apply the brakes to get a smooth stop. I like to let the sights settle (that requires looking at them) as I go to the trigger.

[JAD]

A question that I think is on topic: should a shooter of moderate experience attempt to learn the press-out on their own, or will that cause too much upset and bad-habit-forming? Does one have to wait for an opportunity to go to a class where the press-out is taught? I currently use a YFA four count as taught by Crews, who modified it from Awerbuck by focusing on picking up the front sight in peripheral vision in the middle of count four. Draw to a 3x5" at 7, warmed up, guaranteed hit, is under 2 seconds from concealment.

Since I'm currently using a 1911 the press out may not be significantly advantageous; I am interested in returning to the P30 LEM, but only when I can get a focused technical class on trigger manipulation scheduled. It could be argued that I should try to find a class that will teach me the trigger and press-out at the same time, and save both 'til then.

[Sabre07]

I think it is part of presentation and that falls under the category of basics. In my experience "moderate experience" has the basics. Finding a class that focuses on part of presentation ("press out") would be a very specific class indeed. Our Intermediate HG class is a continuation of our Basic HG class, getting more reps and less chatter, fine tuning the basics as presented, building proficiency and then, speed.

[Surf]

For presentations I usually warm up with no time limit, no buzzer. I work on strict adherence to technique and form with precise hits. I will then progress speeds up to a point where I can maintain at least 80% performance with whatever standard I am working with and utilize a timer. I do think inoculation to a timer is important if it is a part of a drill or standard test / qualification. I know the pros and cons to this argument and deal with it accordingly.

As for self evaluation / remediation, it is a tough thing. One of the big reasons that I use video is for this very thing. However you need to know what you're looking for in order to fix it. I also use video to show others what they are doing. I cannot even begin to count how often a student will insist that they are or are not doing something. I shoot a quick video on a cell phone and show them on the spot. The moral here is that it is very hard to self remediate. Again video can be invaluable if you know what you are looking at and what is the correct fix.

I will add that when I teach I am a stickler for teaching what I feel is a correct presentation and trigger manipulation. IMO most basic courses don't pay enough attention to fundamentals as it is not as "sexy" as putting out a lot of lead quickly while doing all the ninja stuff. You know giving the students a lot of bang bang for their buck and limited time in the course often leads to breezing certain topics. Also those who are self taught often feel like they have a handle on the fundamentals when the reality is that they generally do not. This is why so many people have long lasting bad habits.

I generally work with guys who have "been around the block" so to speak. When I start them off, I pretty much break them down to zero. At first many are very put off by this, thinking that it is not a necessity as they "have been around the block" and feel their fundamentals are sound. Some yes, but most no and these are very experienced individuals, many with real world encounters. The reason I mention this is that you should definitely find a course or instruction where you can get in quality instruction and practice on solid fundamental work. I drill fundamentals fairly heavily every range session.

[Leroy]

5 minutes a day for a month or two dryfiring this with a draw will get you what you want. You will probably surpass the 2 second time fairly quickly.
I find it kinda of silly to get "training" to learn how to draw. There is a lot of free info out there to learn the basics and with a bunch of reps you'll figure out the details. Now if eventually you get stuck after a period of time and can not improve then going to a class could be useful. A good instructor may be able to point out a couple of subtle things to gain you a tenth or two. Much of the time they will just push you and it works.
Practice going fast to be fast.

[45dotACP]

5 minutes a day for a month or two dryfiring this with a draw will get you what you want. You will probably surpass the 2 second time fairly quickly.
I find it kinda of silly to get "training" to learn how to draw. There is a lot of free info out there to learn the basics and with a bunch of reps you'll figure out the details. Now if eventually you get stuck after a period of time and can not improve then going to a class could be useful. A good instructor may be able to point out a couple of subtle things to gain you a tenth or two. Much of the time they will just push you and it works.
Practice going fast to be fast.

Bolded for disagreement. Poor fundamentals make for poor progress and a 2 second draw ain't all that fast. I have found my experience to be quite the reverse of yours. Going to training to get the basics, and asking the experienced shooters about more complex details at places like P-F or Enos has been more useful to me.

[Leroy]

The OP was saying he was having issues with a 2 second shot from compressed ready, so adding a draw would be big step for him. Yes, a 2 second draw is not a lofty goal. It also reads like he has spent all his time on slow group shooting trigger press, he needs to start practicing a faster trigger press and gripping the gun hard (especially with the weak hand) so as not disturb the sights at speed.
KWil-where does this drill fall apart for you? Can you break the drill down into how long it is taking you to accomplish sight alignment, then the time to break the shot?