Update from IDPA Headquarters, CCP Division Wins

[orionz06]

This isn't that exciting to me. The 8 round limit seems pointless.

That's just IDPA things.


The ESP I think is a good thing. At least seems to show some recognition that folks tweak their carry guns but I wonder if it is actually for other reasons.

[Mr_White]

Unlike the other shooting sports the thing I like about IDPA is you can take a stock pistol, and average gear and have fun and compete.

I think you can do that in at least a few divisions in USPSA too.

[Peally]

USPSA isn't bad in that regard (production and limited-10 are doable with standard CCW gear plus some mags, at least on a state-or-lower level) but it's also certainly not aimed at that crowd. You don't need a gamer belt and 8 spare mags but they sure don't hurt

I agree that there needs to be round limits, and they're in every other sport aside from open divisions, so I'm not exactly sure why that's disagreeable unless there's something particularly wrong with the number 8.

[Mr_White]

I think the USPSA vs. IDPA discussion, when it comes to where you can take your stock pistol, average gear, compete and have fun, is mostly a perception issue. It does seem like a lot of people perceive IDPA as suitable and USPSA as unsuitable, but I think you can do that in either one pretty easily.

[cclaxton]

I think the USPSA vs. IDPA discussion, when it comes to where you can take your stock pistol, average gear, compete and have fun, is mostly a perception issue. It does seem like a lot of people perceive IDPA as suitable and USPSA as unsuitable, but I think you can do that in either one pretty easily.

There are some significant differences, though.
1) DA/SA must be started in DA for production division, which is the division for stock guns.
2) Limited is dominated by high end guns so no play there.
3) Limited 10 has so few competing, it doesn't make much sense
4) The Production Master level shooters often set a very high bar for the ordinary shooter. If even one of them shoots, your percentage is gonna suck. With Time+ scoring, it is easier to see how you performed, and can measure yourself against Overall.
5) I see very few Compact sized polymer framed guns (G19/17, XDm 4.5", S&W M&P 4.5", etc.) in USPSA events, but I see a TON of them in IDPA, even at sanctioned matches. I do see a lot of Glock 34s and XDm 5.25's in USPSA production.

People just don't feel competitive in USPSA with compact guns whereas in IDPA the movement and distances are typically shorter and compact guns are a better fit for the concealed carry emphasis of the sport.

But this thread should not be about USPSA v IDPA. Let's talk about the new division.
Cody

[PPGMD]

4) The Production Master level shooters often set a very high bar for the ordinary shooter. If even one of them shoots, your percentage is gonna suck. With Time+ scoring, it is easier to see how you performed, and can measure yourself against Overall.

That is because you do suck. The first step is realizing it. And then realize that you shouldn't be comparing yourself to them, but to people in a similar class to you or your perceived skill level if unclassified.

And it is the same if a national champion IDPA shooter shot the match, where as they might be in mid double digits, and you are in triple digits. The only difference is that using percentages you clear see your level of suckage instead of saying I'm only 50 seconds behind them, never mind the fact that is almost 100% more time.

[ToddG]

It does seem like a lot of people perceive IDPA as suitable and USPSA as unsuitable, but I think you can do that in either one pretty easily.

Can you shoot either sport? Sure. But shooting USPSA from concealment with "carry/non-gamer" gear puts you at a disadvantage compared to your competitors who don't limit themselves that way. You like the challenge but a lot of folks are too heavily ego invested to hamstring themselves at a match.

2) Limited is dominated by high end guns so no play there.

You can play anywhere. And while I may be wrong -- haven't been to a USPSA match in years -- I doubt the really high end guns are being used at the D, C, B, or even A levels (and maybe beyond).

3) Limited 10 has so few competing, it doesn't make much sense

I don't get this. You still go, shoot the match, see your results. If I were going to shoot USPSA again I'd probably go L10 because my pistol has a 10rd capacity and you cannot AIWB in Single Stack.

4) The Production Master level shooters often set a very high bar for the ordinary shooter.

That's because Production M and GM shooters shoot really well. I don't get the issue. Whether you lose to a Prod GM by 80% or you lose to an IDPA M by 80 seconds, losing by a lot is losing by a lot. I prefer the IDPA way primarily because it's easy to get things scored quickly but both systems have merit. At the end of the day, both sports list the #2 guy beneath the #1 guy regardless of how close or distant the #2 guy was to the winner.

5) I see very few Compact sized polymer framed guns (G19/17, XDm 4.5", S&W M&P 4.5", etc.) in USPSA events, but I see a TON of them in IDPA, even at sanctioned matches. I do see a lot of Glock 34s and XDm 5.25's in USPSA production.

Worrying about what other people are shooting is not going to change your score or performance. Plus I think it's pretty generous to call G17 or full size M&P a "compact sized" gun.

But this thread should not be about USPSA v IDPA.

Dude. You can't write a laundry list like that and then tell people it's not an us vs them thread...

[Peally]

I shoot L10...

HK45 fits there better than production.

[Mr_White]

Can you shoot either sport? Sure. But shooting USPSA from concealment with "carry/non-gamer" gear puts you at a disadvantage compared to your competitors who don't limit themselves that way. You like the challenge but a lot of folks are too heavily ego invested to hamstring themselves at a match.

I was really only trying to narrowly respond to "Unlike the other shooting sports the thing I like about IDPA is you can take a stock pistol, and average gear and have fun and compete." You can easily do that in USPSA. If he had said 'be competitive to win' or 'feel competitive' I probably wouldn't have even responded. I was being pretty literal.

You can play anywhere. And while I may be wrong -- haven't been to a USPSA match in years -- I doubt the really high end guns are being used at the D, C, B, or even A levels (and maybe beyond).

I may not be the best person to make the observation because I don't know very much about proper Limited guns, but I do see what look to me like proper Limited guns (big and shiny with many bullets and sweet triggers!!!) used at most skill levels in Limited, though I'd agree that there are probably more of them at the higher levels. I do see all levels of competitors use them at least some though. Maybe not D class. I am positive I see them down to C though.

[cclaxton]

Can you shoot either sport? Sure. But shooting USPSA from concealment with "carry/non-gamer" gear puts you at a disadvantage compared to your competitors who don't limit themselves that way. You like the challenge but a lot of folks are too heavily ego invested to hamstring themselves at a match.

You can play anywhere. And while I may be wrong -- haven't been to a USPSA match in years -- I doubt the really high end guns are being used at the D, C, B, or even A levels (and maybe beyond).

I don't get this. You still go, shoot the match, see your results. If I were going to shoot USPSA again I'd probably go L10 because my pistol has a 10rd capacity and you cannot AIWB in Single Stack.

That's because Production M and GM shooters shoot really well. I don't get the issue. Whether you lose to a Prod GM by 80% or you lose to an IDPA M by 80 seconds, losing by a lot is losing by a lot. I prefer the IDPA way primarily because it's easy to get things scored quickly but both systems have merit. At the end of the day, both sports list the #2 guy beneath the #1 guy regardless of how close or distant the #2 guy was to the winner.

Worrying about what other people are shooting is not going to change your score or performance. Plus I think it's pretty generous to call G17 or full size M&P a "compact sized" gun.

Dude. You can't write a laundry list like that and then tell people it's not an us vs them thread...

I didn't bring up USPSA. I would really like this thread to be about the Compact Carry Division and not USPSA.
I have been shooting USPSA at Fredericksburg and Quantico and Peacemaker (although not recently at Peacemaker since they changed the weekend). In Limited I mostly see STI's, SVI's, Highly customized Glock 34's and XDm 5.25's, a few Para's and CZ Shadows. I tried shooting L10 last year and I would have like 2-3 people in that division, sometimes I was the only one in that division. I settled on Production because I want to shoot my CZ and I want the same rounds that I shoot in IDPA.
I don't disagree that much on the scoring, but I do prefer Time Plus, much easier to compare across divisions.
My only point about the Glock 17/19/4.5"/4.25" guns is that they are popular in IDPA, but not in USPSA. And, you can be more competitive in IDPA with them.

Cody