This was Friday afternoon before the Super Sports Ball Match. This is just one of the ramps. A second of similar size was full and they closed a run up area that was also full. Also the normal FBO parking was full. There are 5 or 6 other airports in the PHX metro too.
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0aGI9HKKGOzWqC
Because you have a company called Vision Collective and having a Vision Jet lets say with a tail number like N01VC would be cool! In addition if I fly it and put 4 crew members in it the operating cost is less than flying them commercial. Not including the initial price tag of course....Originally Posted by GJM
PHX was crazy today! 1 hr delay getting there from DEN and then a :45 min taxi getting out. NetJets seemed to had turned the whole West Cargo ramp into their own airport and saw at least 2 UAL 777s. Controllers definitely seemed taxed.
Even on Friday. Tried to get VFR flight following to Sedona. The fastest "unable" I ever received.
Anyone care to comment/speculate on what happened to that United 777 in December?
Reported steep increase I climb rate 3-5 sec followed by steep descent then recovery. Somewhat reminiscent of the 737 Max trim issue.
Wind? Trim issue? Pilots were sent for additional training per a news story.
Could be a few things on UAL...
Could have been a trim runaway. Unlikely as they continued to SFO. If there is a malfunction like that, no way in hell would I continue across one of the largest open-water routes in the world. HNL, a huge runway, lot of fire trucks, and an overweight landing for me thank you. This small fact alone is telling.
The altitude where this all began is about the time a lot of guys click on the autopilot. There is no set rule for this. Some turn it on immediately, some hand fly to altitude. Most are in between. I usually hand fly to 18,000’ unless workload, fatigue, or a very high workload departure procedure is involved. Then, it usually comes on after flap retraction and the After Takeoff Checklist is complete. This is around 2000’AGL. This is the altitude that UAL seems to have had the issue. One “theory” is that perhaps the altitude was not set in the MCP window, or it was set at “00000”. This would be part of the before takeoff checklist, but sometimes it cannot be done at that time. This might have been one of those times as you’re initial altitude is received from HNL Center in your departure clearance. If they got busy, got their clearance at the last moment before takeoff (not entirely uncommon there) it could have been missed. The result is that when when the autopilot was engaged in what is called “LNAV and VNAV” (lateral and vertical guidance) the autopilot saw “00000” and said “OK...we go there!” Away they went. The amount of time it took to recover falls into the “What the fuck is going on here!!??” time range. I have to look at the actual time of night this happened, but OGG tower closes at I believe 2200 or maybe 2300L. After that time, like I said above, you don’t receive a clearance altitude until immediate before takeoff from HNL Center via a VHF remote at OGG. I could easily see this happening. Why were they maybe rushed? Could be that there was traffic on approach and HNL gave them an “immediate takeoff/void if not airborne by xxxx” clearance. Could be that they had other issues going on that distracted them too. (Call from flight attendants saying someone just HAD to get up and pee, an ACARS message from the company...the possibilities are endless.)
Why was it set to “00000” in the first place? When doing certain kinds of approaches on autopilot or hand flying using flight directors (the “crosshairs” it is procedure to “dial the dirt” as we say. You set the field elevation into the window to allow the autopilot or flight director to guide you to approach minimums (which are usually only a couple hundred feet above the runway). For example, if the minimums are 870’ and the field elevation is 570’, you set “500” into the window. It can only be set in increments of 100’. OGG is basically sea level. So if the airplane had done an RNAV style approach coming into OGG (very common) it would have been indeed set to “00000”. Also, if the plane is TOTALLY depowered to dark, when it has power applied again and it “wakes up” the window in question defaults to “00000” as well.
That’s my take on it all. More than likely what happened is that they fucked up, continued on, and filed what’s called an “ASAP” report. Basically they self disclose their error so it could be discovered and others can learn from it without retribution to the crew. This is a common procedure and over the years is one of the reasons air travel has become so safe. It’s a matter of learning and not punishing. Besides, the data was all gathered automatically from the airplane anyhow. UAL had it about 20sec after it happened and it went to their Safety Department. You can’t fart on the flight deck without somebody knowing about it.
Any additional questions feel free to ask and I’ll do my best to explain.
Last edited by entropy; 02-14-2023 at 11:06 AM.
Working diligently to enlarge my group size.
Rumor is there was an error while they were retracting the flaps. The pilot monitoring supposedly went to flaps up when the pilot flying called for a different setting. I fly the baby Boeing (737), and I've never flown the 777, so I don't know if the numbers are right, but I heard they went from flaps 20, to flaps up. There should have been another setting, or two along the way.
In a heavy, slow airplane, thats bad juju.
That’s another possibility... OGG is a pretty short runway. Usually that requires additional flaps. After takeoff, they are brought up incrementally as your speed increases. It’s not everyday you do this, especially when you’re used to huge runways like the 777 operates on 99% of the time.
Nothing like having the “bottom fall out on you” eh? Lol
We’ll know soon enough. I suspect we’ll all get a “Safety Alert” from our respective flight departments very soon...
Working diligently to enlarge my group size.
Horrible helicopter crash in the north part of our state today, unknown how many folks were onboard when it went down.
https://twitter.com/@twitter/status/1625985418914144257
Looks like the tweet has been deleted, but if it’s the crash in the news right now, it was a Tennessee National Guard Black Hawk.
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