"The One"

[David Armstrong]

The Glock 17 is "The One" for me. I shoot it better than any other handgun, and despite dalliances with hammer fired weapons, I always come back to the 17's.

Yep. Instead of searching for "The One" sometimes it is better to find "one" and make it "the" through practice and experience, as okie john said. For me, the Glock family was decided on over 20 years ago and I haven't seen any need to second-guess that decision. The 17 or the 19 will handle all of my personal protection needs that can be met by a handgun with just a little work on my part.

[KevinB]

I'm an M&P guy - and you seem to enjoy the platform already, so my recommendation would be the FS...

The 9C works with the full sized mags - albeit I feel the same as you and have a Shield for a BUG. I carry the FS (CORE in my case) daily as I don't find the size an issue -

[Doublestack45]

I'm always in awe of individuals who can, using commonly available tools, do outstanding things.
Reading this prompted a 20 minute search on the "tools" used by the Renaissance master Michelangelo to create (David). He clearly was obsessive about the results of his work, spending years of his life in the quarries finding the perfect pieces of marble. Nowhere was there any mention of special chisels or hammers, simply tools. One could argue his obsession with the stone was an attempt to use quality materials to achieve the best results. Using his work as a template for the topic, Michelangelo used simple tools that worked for him (Glock,S&W,HK,etc.) to shape quality stone (training) into his work of art (individual performance).
This line of reasoning helps keep me on track, and focused on training above all else.

[Father of 3]

^^^EXCELLENT!

[jc000]

Using his work as a template for the topic, Michelangelo used simple tools that worked for him (Glock,S&W,HK,etc.) to shape quality stone (training) into his work of art (individual performance).

Wow – I love that!

[GardoneVT]

Dont forget emotional satisfaction with the specific piece.

Its an easy topic to dismiss as irrelevant, but being emotionally happy with your chosen tool means you'll be motivated to train with it-come rain,sleet,or snow . When shooting and dry fire training becomes a chore, burnout isnt long in following.

[okie john]

JV and FredM,
There is my other debate.

Why the 17?
Why not the 19 or the 34?

Whenever I try and decide on the 17 I start thinking, "well you have just as much grip, but get a longer sight radius and longer barrel with the 34" or "well the 19 is easier to conceal with almost just as many rounds".

I start having a debate with myself trying to justify each one over the other.

Your answer was in your first post:

Pros: Our agency issues Glock 17 in 9mm so this means that a stock Glock 17 Gen 4 is issued with Glock night sights for use.

You're going to have a Gen4 G17 with factory night sights in hand when you need a pistol, so train with that.


Okie John

[rob_s]

I'm always in awe of individuals who can, using commonly available tools, do outstanding things.
Reading this prompted a 20 minute search on the "tools" used by the Renaissance master Michelangelo to create (David). He clearly was obsessive about the results of his work, spending years of his life in the quarries finding the perfect pieces of marble. Nowhere was there any mention of special chisels or hammers, simply tools. One could argue his obsession with the stone was an attempt to use quality materials to achieve the best results. Using his work as a template for the topic, Michelangelo used simple tools that worked for him (Glock,S&W,HK,etc.) to shape quality stone (training) into his work of art (individual performance).
This line of reasoning helps keep me on track, and focused on training above all else.

Interesting parallel with artists.

I've noticed over the years that the tool does not make the artist. I have several very talented friends (as most people do) and they have proven to be talented whether tattooing, drawing, sculpting, or even just making the best possible Miis on the Wii. There is definitely a parallel between that and guns/great shooters, especially if we look at the top level sponsored shooters who change teams every few years but still linger in the top of the rankings. Or an instructor that happens to be a great shooter and can demonstrate same with just about any student's gun on the line. One might argue, however, that these people carry an innate talent

But I think gear matters. How much it matters depends on the skill level of the shooter. It certainly matters at the very early stages of the shooter's development (such as when a first-time shooter is able to get good hits with a 1911 but not with a DA revolver), and possibly again at the top-end (see the "is this the year to drop the .308" thread), but even then at the top end it's about tenths and hudredths (which matter at that level) not anything substantial. It's that middle range, where most of us live, that I doubt any of this truly matters. We hear about things like "hand fit" and "staging the trigger" and all sorts of other mintutiae, and then we go qualify Sharpshooter at the monthly IDPA Classifier, same as we've been doing for a decade.

[JonInWA]

Stick with Glock. The slightly superior ergos of the M&P become irrelevant/insignificant after spending a modicum of time with a Glock, and your muscle memory is sufficiently established. Additionally the perennial cycle of accuracy/parts issues that seemingly plague the M&P (particularly the 9mm M&Ps) render it a total fail for me both for my personal use, and as a recommendation to others.

Passion is a tricky and fickle thing. I understand your inability to have it for a Glock-they're certainly not a work of art, at least aesthetically. But perhaps their beauty lies in their operation, function, and successful use. Not to mention their weather imperviousness, ease of lubrication, low maintenance, reliability, and durability. Ditto for their magazines. Oh yeah-and their light weight. Basically, I'm suggesting that it'sperhaps better to concentrate on how the tool works (and how one works with the tool) than how aesthetically how the tool superficially looks.

Best, Jon

[Mr_White]

Enjoyment is great wherever you can find it, from hardware or anywhere.

I love repeating TLG's "Without enjoyment, there is no mastery" because it's just so profoundly true, for me at least.

To echo a comment I've seen JHC make a number of times, and I strongly feel myself, my enjoyment comes from the shooting rather than the tool. From the use of the tool, and from getting better at that use. A real plain-vanilla gun like a 9mm Glock gets out of the way and lets it be all about the shooting.

I'd absolutely not begrudge somebody enjoying their gun. I do have to say that from the standpoint of measured results (which don't necessarily have to be the point for a given person, that is solely up to them), the most productive thing that's happened to me was to cease caring very much about the hardware and start caring instead about what I can do with it.