Speer Gold Dot G2: Too Soon To Buy In?

[BLR]

The post - believing in the post, as in redirecting pressure, is a total complete and utter fail. That's not how fluids work. At all. Not even close to reality. Any difference seen is experimental error.

The rubber filled cavity - again, not how this works. Not even close. In fact, vector analysis of the forces at play will show you it doesn't help, it hurts.

Hollow points work based on the shape (how tolerant it will be to being plugged), lead hardness, jacket hardness/thickness/scoring. Plugs, posts, and whatever.....that's the fingerprint of marketing.

The Hydrashok was marketing genius. So was the Black Talon.

[BLR]

I think they know exactly what they're doing from a fluid dynamics perspective.

I think the idea is to fill the cavity with something that will prevent any sort of loose solid from filling the cavity, but has the same compression characteristics as water (meaning it will flow under pressure, but not compress.) If the bullet hits water (or a high water content substance, like living tissue), the pressure exerted on the interface of the cavity filler will be carried though it and exerted on the walls of the cavity, as if the water in the tissue itself had filled the cavity on impact, and was exerting the pressure.

What makes you say that? What you've said above is a rewording of $2 a round ad copy.

Is blood/interstial fluid/etc shear thickening? Thinning? A Bingham plastic? Does it change with flow (in other words, bullet velocity)? How does that affect performance if denim gets stuck in the cavity?

Previous bullet designs give me an impression of iterative design with heavy marketing influence, little real understanding.

[El Cid]

1. I have had nothing to do with any FBI DSU testing of the Speer G2.

My mistake. I misunderstood the NDA references after the first discussion about it.

[El Cid]

The post - believing in the post, as in redirecting pressure, is a total complete and utter fail. That's not how fluids work. At all. Not even close to reality. Any difference seen is experimental error.

The rubber filled cavity - again, not how this works. Not even close. In fact, vector analysis of the forces at play will show you it doesn't help, it hurts.

Hollow points work based on the shape (how tolerant it will be to being plugged), lead hardness, jacket hardness/thickness/scoring. Plugs, posts, and whatever.....that's the fingerprint of marketing.

Help me understand if you will. I know the ammo manufacturers have engineers who deal with such things. How can they miss what you're saying is a problem? How do you know their design won't work unless you've been involved in testing their ammo (or other ammo)? Again, I'm genuinely curious.

[BLR]

Help me understand if you will. I know the ammo manufacturers have engineers who deal with such things. How can they miss what you're saying is a problem? How do you know their design won't work unless you've been involved in testing their ammo (or other ammo)? Again, I'm genuinely curious.

How about this: I challenge you to find one single engineer who says that the post does anything at all to redirect forces and enhance expansion. Anything at all.

The last time I worked with an ammo company, they were evaluating sticking a little rubber plug into their hollow point. I asked their "engineer" what Poisson's ratio was for the hard rubber they were looking at. Not only did they not know, they did not know what Possion's ratio was or why it was important. Ammo companies R&D are like Myth Busters.

And it should be noted, I'm not the only one who is saying this. I don't actually know anyone who disagrees.

You may draw your own conclusions from that.

[DocGKR]

The Hydrashok post was irrelevant to the design and effect of the bullet, thus pure marketing.

[23JAZ]

How about this: I challenge you to find one single engineer who says that the post does anything at all to redirect forces and enhance expansion. Anything at all.

The last time I worked with an ammo company, they were evaluating sticking a little rubber plug into their hollow point. I asked their "engineer" what Poisson's ratio was for the hard rubber they were looking at. Not only did they not know, they did not know what Possion's ratio was or why it was important. Ammo companies R&D are like Myth Busters.

And it should be noted, I'm not the only one who is saying this. I don't actually know anyone who disagrees.

You may draw your own conclusions from that.

Would the name of that company happen to end in a Y?

[BLR]

Would the name of that company happen to end in a Y?

Nope.

Most of the bullet makers have dabbled in this.

[5pins]

I thought the “rubber plug” in the G2 was to prevent clogging when hitting heavy clothing.

[Sigfan26]

How about this: I challenge you to find one single engineer who says that the post does anything at all to redirect forces and enhance expansion. Anything at all.

The last time I worked with an ammo company, they were evaluating sticking a little rubber plug into their hollow point. I asked their "engineer" what Poisson's ratio was for the hard rubber they were looking at. Not only did they not know, they did not know what Possion's ratio was or why it was important. Ammo companies R&D are like Myth Busters.

And it should be noted, I'm not the only one who is saying this. I don't actually know anyone who disagrees.

You may draw your own conclusions from that.

I always wondered about that. How does plugging the hollow point with rubber or elastomer help? I know, it prevents clogging with heavy clothing... But, it's just clogging it with something different!