Bill drill Comparison data

I have said it before on here, but I really prefer 25 yd bill drills as a better test of grip, stance, trigger control, and recoil control than a 7 yd drill. Like GJM said, the 7 yd target is rather generous. I can literally draw, get one initial sight picture, and hammer the trigger 6 times and keep all rounds inside the A zone. At 25 yds, you have to have a solid sight picture for each shot and your trigger control has to be outstanding in order to keep all rounds in the A. I start to see a much larger deviation in time and accuracy (dropped shots into the C or D) between different platforms. A good example of this is last week I shot a couple warm ups with a G35 with minor pf reloads. I shot two clean 25 yd bill drills in 3.31 and 3.28. This week I spent an afternoon shooting my springfield pro and shot the same drill with 195pf factory .45. The best clean run time was 4.04, and I had two runs dropping shots into the C zone. I just can't make up for the recoil difference between the two. At 7 yds, both guns/ammo combos perform the same for me though.

The Garcia dot drill is another great comparison drill for recoil, trigger control, and shootability. You have a tight, but not impossible, time limit and you have to hit a small target at 7 yds and then repeat it 6 times, which really takes away any outlier runs. Once again, I feel like the biggest contributor to good performance on drills like these is recoil control differences rather than the difference between a stock glock trigger and a custom 1911 trigger. If the drill had no time limit, the short, crisp 1911 trigger would win out every time.

Originally Posted by givo08

I have said it before on here, but I really prefer 25 yd bill drills as a better test of grip, stance, trigger control, and recoil control than a 7 yd drill. Like GJM said, the 7 yd target is rather generous. I can literally draw, get one initial sight picture, and hammer the trigger 6 times and keep all rounds inside the A zone. At 25 yds, you have to have a solid sight picture for each shot and your trigger control has to be outstanding in order to keep all rounds in the A. I start to see a much larger deviation in time and accuracy (dropped shots into the C or D) between different platforms. A good example of this is last week I shot a couple warm ups with a G35 with minor pf reloads. I shot two clean 25 yd bill drills in 3.31 and 3.28. This week I spent an afternoon shooting my springfield pro and shot the same drill with 195pf factory .45. The best clean run time was 4.04, and I had two runs dropping shots into the C zone. I just can't make up for the recoil difference between the two. At 7 yds, both guns/ammo combos perform the same for me though.

The Garcia dot drill is another great comparison drill for recoil, trigger control, and shootability. You have a tight, but not impossible, time limit and you have to hit a small target at 7 yds and then repeat it 6 times, which really takes away any outlier runs. Once again, I feel like the biggest contributor to good performance on drills like these is recoil control differences rather than the difference between a stock glock trigger and a custom 1911 trigger. If the drill had no time limit, the short, crisp 1911 trigger would win out every time.

Agree, but your talking fairly skilled people, many shooters can't reliably hit a 25yd target, much less score well on it. We use these basic drills to help decide what level class someone needs to be in and most are D/Marksman level shooters even though they think they are good............... shooting past 15yds completely destroys what little confidence they have.

Needs more double action revolver

If you're doing the original Bill Drill with just one sight picture, you're simply trying to hit a target as fast as you can and not actually doing what the dill is supposed to be about (getting six sight pictures as fast as you can guarantee good hits). If you need to increase the range or decrease the target size to make that a challenge then by all means do so, but it's not a failure of the exercise.

Originally Posted by ToddG

If you're doing the original Bill Drill with just one sight picture, you're simply trying to hit a target as fast as you can and not actually doing what the dill is supposed to be about (getting six sight pictures as fast as you can guarantee good hits). If you need to increase the range or decrease the target size to make that a challenge then by all means do so, but it's not a failure of the exercise.

Todd is absolutely correct. As I have posted before, the original drill from back in the 80s required a "clean" run to count, if you dropped a point it was no time. When we started playing with the drill it was in the era of the .38 super comp gun and early race holsters, our goal was a 2 sec run. With service pistols in a honest carry holster using either USPSA or IDPA target I think 3 sec is a good goal. Let's face it, anyone who can shoot a 3.5sec run on demand with carry gear is a pretty darn good shooter.

Originally Posted by ToddG

If you're doing the original Bill Drill with just one sight picture, you're simply trying to hit a target as fast as you can and not actually doing what the dill is supposed to be about (getting six sight pictures as fast as you can guarantee good hits). If you need to increase the range or decrease the target size to make that a challenge then by all means do so, but it's not a failure of the exercise.

Right, i'm not saying that's the proper way to shoot it, but reinforcing what GJM said about the target being too generous at 7 yds to get a realistic comparison between different guns. If you want to see a bigger difference in guns, trigger types, ammo power factor, etc and the impact on your performance, a 25 yd bill drill or a garcia dot drill or the 5x5 drill (or anything with a tighter target under time pressure) may give you a clearer statistical difference in the outcome than a 7 yd bill drill.

Could be an interesting discussion between "shooting for A's" and shooting "to guarantee A's."

Originally Posted by GJM

Could be an interesting discussion between "shooting for A's" and shooting "to guarantee A's."

I like Pat McNamara's approach: you either get all A hits or the run doesn't count for record.


Okie John

Since we're talking Bill Drills with Bill himself, I'll share my variation. I draw and fire six rounds using a bullseye for a target at 7 yds. My goal is to keep my time no more than 3 seconds and see how many points I can get (nothing outside of the 8 ring counts and the 8 is conveniently an 8" circle). My best performance the last time I shot was 56 points (93%) in 2.77 seconds (Blade-Tech belt holster, no concealment). If find that the bullseye target really forces me to work the sight tracking and use a bit more trigger control.

I call it Bill on a Bull.

I more commonly call bull on Bill.