From my experience with two SIRTs including a lot of time screwing with one to adjust it more realistic; I'd say no, or barely so. But I've witnessed training with one deliver great benefits. As I have been known to say a trigger press is a trigger press is a trigger press. Yes a perfect copy is just that; perfect. But learning occurs with all trigger presses. YMMVOriginally Posted by BrianB
Last edited by JHC; 01-02-2015 at 04:13 PM.
“Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais
Do any of you proponents see potential for desensitizing one's self to trigger-pressed/no-recoil, as opposed to conditioning an immediate action drill for that stimulus?
In that vein, what behavior might one be unconsciously conditioning themselves for, with this practice?
Well, since EVERY round of dry fire results in the "trigger press no recoil failure" - I think this is probably a non-issue.
I can and have seen issues where people think they're dry firing and get surprised by a loud noise, but I've never seen someone who was involved in dry fire training develop any bad habits when they were live firing from the addition of recoil. Some folks need to be reminded how to control recoil with live fire, or track the sight through it's arc of movement, but those are rare issues, in my experience...
While every trigger press dry might fail to have recoil, might one not condition the same reaction as you would with live fire? At the least, the trigger is reset as applicable; at the most, one has the opportunity to get repetitions of a host of different things.
My experience differs from yours, in seeing poor habits develop from a poorly considered dry fire regimen, and/or poor sustainment practices at the range.
I think dry fire is at its best when integrated into an active live fire program, so as to continue to relate what you are seeing and feeling during dry fire with live fire.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I have found that when I did daily dry fire but only monthly live fire, that my anticipation got worse. Way worse. I can dry fire without the sights moving much , even in DA guns. But anticipation still dogs me, unless I'm shooting weekly or biweekly.
I'd agree. The pseudo press on the 320 is very similar to the location of the actual release point. I spent about an hour futsing with a 320C yesterday evaluating exactly this. I think the extent to which it mimics the actual press is very comparable, for example, to how well a SIRT does so with a Block.
Maybe better even.
Absolutely agree. I think one thing that gets overlooked a lot is the visual component. That is to say, a big part of the dry fire process is visually evaluating the effect of your actions, be it pressing the trigger at speed, transitioning the gun, acquiring the new sight picture, etc, etc….
I personally haven't seen dry fire create these types of training scars. But even in the event it did happen, the outcome would be what, an extra .20 or so (an additional dry press) before the cognitive mind shifted and initiated the tap-rack? I get that 10ths of a second potentially matter in a gunfight but I think the associated benefits of a regular regiment FAR outweigh the potential dangers.
Pressing the trigger straight to the rear cleanly at speed?In that vein, what behavior might one be unconsciously conditioning themselves for, with this practice?
Not trying to be too much of a smart ass but are the benefits of a well conducted dry fire training regiment really being contested?
IME, dry fire isn't likely going to overcome a strong flinch response by itself. That needs to be done methodically via live fire. I had a pretty significant flinch for years. Not so much a pre-ignition-push type flinch, but I definitely had issues with blinking, and as a result, difficulty with shot calling and seeing the front sight lift, especially shooting at speed.
There's some good direction on the matter from a well established GM here if ya have interest:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...#39;s%20flinch
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Let me clarify:
With a DAO or false-resetting trigger, you can operate the trigger while pressing the sights. How much benefit can you derive from this, while potentially developing poor habits? Ersatz trigger reach and weight, while working the same sight picture uninterrupted? Perhaps the drawstroke and presentation?
With any trigger for any automatic pistol, why not have a routine that is essentially the same as live fire, if with fewer loud noises? The user can draw their weapon to their workspace, load it with mags full of dummy rounds, top off the carry rig, draw (from concealment? from duty gear?) the weapon, punch or press out, get a sight picture, choose to fire, press the trigger, recognize the mush\no-bang, tap\rack, replace the support hand with the right tactile indexing, punch or press back out, get a sight picture, and choose to fire or not. If the magazine runs dry, the slide locks to the rear, providing a visual and tactile cue to conduct a speed reload. Before reholstering, one could conduct a magazine exchange, contentious a topic as that may be here.
Could you clarify why my advocating for a different pattern of dry fire and weapons manipulations, that is more in-line with live fire and applicable to more weapons, could be construed as me contesting the utility of dry fire, please?
Thanks. I'll give that a try. I did run a drill some time back where I squeezed the trigger until I started to hit the flinch, then would breathe/relax until it went away. It worked for that practice session but wore off....I think I need to be more disciplined and start out each practice session with ten shots this way, in addition to the sight tracking stuff in the link.
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