2015 is the year to dump the .308?

[Odin Bravo One]

If any come up, I'd love to know.

Thanks.

[223AI]

I'm late to the game on this, but I've been loading ammo for the Vegas Precision Rifle Match this weekend. The fact of the matter is that I'll likely not see any .308's this weekend at the match, or at any other PRS matches that I shoot this year. There will be a good mix of 6.5 and 6mm's, and almost every single shooter will be running a bolt gun. The wind difference, followed closely by the recoil difference is significant.

Set up properly, a bolt gun can run just fine with a gas gun in a competition setting. At Rifles Only, we shoot a short timed drill called Moving Chaos, which has you shoot two at the 400 yard mover, two at a 210 yard 1 MOA target, two at a 350 yard 1.5 moa target, 2 at a 550 yard target, and 2 more at the mover....if you hit on the first round, then move on to the next target. The time constraints have it to where you are better of holding, rather than dialing, unless you really know what you are doing with the scope and stress management. Gas gunners run it just as fast and/or slow as the bolt gun guys. Same thing can be said on the mover stages and stages with movement from position to position.

The 308 is very clearly outclassed by just about everything 6.5/6mm...from start to finish. Heck, even my .223 bolt gun, sending pointed 82 bergers at 2900, outclasses my 308's in every way except downrange energy.

[shane45]

[223AI]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...BHfUWQy0#t=262

Here is a video of me running the same stage during a competition course at Rifles Only. It should start at 4:22 into the video. I'm shooting pointed 82 Bergers at 2900 out of a .223 with a Brux 6.5 twist barrel, and a stiller action. I usually dial that stage, but holding worked fine too...

[rob_s]

Fact is, very very few shooters will benefit from wrapping themselves up in a $5-8k or more rifle set up in a caliber that is not COTS.
I see zero confirmation groups in the 1/2-3/4 minute range, at mid-range start seeing the uncalled, off center hits, and by the time we get into ranges where a .308 struggles to keep up with the new kids on the block, the rifle and caliber are capable of keeping up 70-80% of the time. Those that are not keeping up, it's not the caliber or the zillion dollar set up that is preventing them from being competitive with the new hotness.
Exceptional shooters can stretch the legs of the .308 & .300 WM, and would benefit from upgrading to something where caliber performance matches or exceeds their abilities. But there is a reason we see the same names at the top of the score cards match after match, year after year. They didn't climb to the top because of technology. They climbed to the top on the old .30 calibers and when the guns and ammo could not match their abilities, set off in search of tech that would push them into new levels of performance. It wasn't the other way around.

So, then, is the original premise of the thread, that this is the year to dump the .308, really accurate for more than the top 1% of shooters?

[LittleLebowski]

I'm late to the game on this, but I've been loading ammo for the Vegas Precision Rifle Match this weekend. The fact of the matter is that I'll likely not see any .308's this weekend at the match, or at any other PRS matches that I shoot this year. There will be a good mix of 6.5 and 6mm's, and almost every single shooter will be running a bolt gun. The wind difference, followed closely by the recoil difference is significant.

Set up properly, a bolt gun can run just fine with a gas gun in a competition setting. At Rifles Only, we shoot a short timed drill called Moving Chaos, which has you shoot two at the 400 yard mover, two at a 210 yard 1 MOA target, two at a 350 yard 1.5 moa target, 2 at a 550 yard target, and 2 more at the mover....if you hit on the first round, then move on to the next target. The time constraints have it to where you are better of holding, rather than dialing, unless you really know what you are doing with the scope and stress management. Gas gunners run it just as fast and/or slow as the bolt gun guys. Same thing can be said on the mover stages and stages with movement from position to position.

The 308 is very clearly outclassed by just about everything 6.5/6mm...from start to finish. Heck, even my .223 bolt gun, sending pointed 82 bergers at 2900, outclasses my 308's in every way except downrange energy.

Excellent post, thank you for sharing, and welcome to the forum.

[Mitch]

How long is the barrel on your 223? 2900 for an 82 gr bullet is pretty impressive. What kind of brass do you use, and how many loads is it good for?

[223AI]

How long is the barrel on your 223? 2900 for an 82 gr bullet is pretty impressive. What kind of brass do you use, and how many loads is it good for?

Thanks! That barrel was 26" plus the can (a cheapie C3 Defense). They key to that velocity is to have an excellent gunsmith (Aaron Roberts at Roberts Precision Rifles), have the barrel throated for the long bullet, to use good brass ( I used virgin lake city in that barrel), and use 8208XBR. Varget and 4895 almost got me there, but 8208 was like magic. Plus it meters like water, and is very temperature stable.

I think I had 9-10 firings on the brass before I tossed it for looser primer pockets than I like. I switched to Lapua brass on my new barrel, and have 4 firings so far with no issues.

[Odin Bravo One]

I'm late to the game on this, but I've been loading ammo for the Vegas Precision Rifle Match this weekend. The fact of the matter is that I'll likely not see any .308's this weekend at the match, or at any other PRS matches that I shoot this year. There will be a good mix of 6.5 and 6mm's, and almost every single shooter will be running a bolt gun. The wind difference, followed closely by the recoil difference is significant.

Set up properly, a bolt gun can run just fine with a gas gun in a competition setting. At Rifles Only, we shoot a short timed drill called Moving Chaos, which has you shoot two at the 400 yard mover, two at a 210 yard 1 MOA target, two at a 350 yard 1.5 moa target, 2 at a 550 yard target, and 2 more at the mover....if you hit on the first round, then move on to the next target. The time constraints have it to where you are better of holding, rather than dialing, unless you really know what you are doing with the scope and stress management. Gas gunners run it just as fast and/or slow as the bolt gun guys. Same thing can be said on the mover stages and stages with movement from position to position.

The 308 is very clearly outclassed by just about everything 6.5/6mm...from start to finish. Heck, even my .223 bolt gun, sending pointed 82 bergers at 2900, outclasses my 308's in every way except downrange energy.

My perspective and purpose is not for matches......... I get it that for most people it is, and that is certainly fine. But there is a big difference between snaps and movers on a range, and snaps and movers that are human.

[223AI]

My perspective and purpose is not for matches......... I get it that for most people it is, and that is certainly fine. But there is a big difference between snaps and movers on a range, and snaps and movers that are human.

I'd agree with you, but I've thankfully never been on a two way range to offer any insight in that regard. I wholeheartedly defer to your expertise on that subject.