Differences in shoot-ability?

[45dotACP]

A perfect example is the XDs in 9mm and .45acp which are the same size, I have shot a few hundred rounds in one session with the 9mm while I hate shooting more than one mag out of the .45.

Psh, those guns are combat accurate at bad breath distance on the streets

That's an excellent point. So I'm guessing the size/caliber differences come into play with progressively smaller guns. Would the cutoff point be at guns around G19 sized then? I seem to recall reading something to the effect that shooting a G22 vs a G17 probably won't see as much difference but shooting a G19 vs a G23 would see a noticeable difference and a G26 vs a G27 will have obvious differences, but I forget the source.

[GardoneVT]

So is the shootability difference really all that great? I may be totally off base here. What do you guys think? Do you see any huge performance gaps between different calibers (9, 40, 45 etc..) in similar sized guns?

I fired my Tanfoglio Match 10mm after a session with a 9mm AR-24 Armalite (essentially a 9mm Tanfoglio Witness made by Sarsilmaz and imported by Armalite) .

The AR24 9mm didnt impart a magical performance improvement-either I applied the fundamentals and hit the target, or didnt and missed.

In my determination the biggest advantage of 9mm is economic. Ammo costs money, and the marginal increase in rounds-per-dollar with 9mm adds up. Because most people who buy guns use them for gun safe ornaments, this detail isnt considered much at time of purchase.

[Savage Hands]

Psh, those guns are combat accurate at bad breath distance on the streets

That's an excellent point. So I'm guessing the size/caliber differences come into play with progressively smaller guns. Would the cutoff point be at guns around G19 sized then? I seem to recall reading something to the effect that shooting a G22 vs a G17 probably won't see as much difference but shooting a G19 vs a G23 would see a noticeable difference and a G26 vs a G27 will have obvious differences, but I forget the source.

I only owned the XDs 9mm for one range session thanks to the recall spooking me from ever trusting it but I hate to say it shot almost as well as my Gen 4 Glocks at 25 yards and definitely better than my Gen 3 Glocks. I have a pic of the target somewhere but minus a flyer I did about a 3" six round group standing unsupported with Blazer Brass iirc.

[David Armstrong]

Keep in mind the shootability difference is also dependent on the shooter, at least in part. For the upper echelon shooters the differences may be minimal, while a new shooter may find the differences huge.

[GJM]

Keep in mind the shootability difference is also dependent on the shooter, at least in part. For the upper echelon shooters the differences may be minimal, while a new shooter may find the differences huge.

New shooters buy new guns thinking they can buy performance. Experienced shooters buy guns for the same reason, but realistically know performance is not something you can buy.

[David Armstrong]

New shooters buy new guns thinking they can buy performance. Experienced shooters buy guns for the same reason, but realistically know performance is not something you can buy.

Some might, but I doubt that is the idea for many. Many new shooters want something that feels comfortable to them and they can shoot. They are not wanting to buy performance, they are wanting to make a wise investment in a personal protection gun or some such. And there is a distinct difference in carrying a full-size 1911 and a medium-frame revolver and a difference in shooting the .45 versus the .38. IME new shooters find the first a bit difficult on both counts while an experienced shooter may be able to work either of them at a fairly high level.

[ToddG]

So is the shootability difference really all that great?

From a consistency standpoint, I'd say yes. While you may be able to turn in the same "personal best" with any caliber, being able to meet a tough standard time and time again consistently is harder the more oomph is behind the bullet.

Comparing 9mm to .45 is pretty specific because you're talking about a fast sharp recoil impulse compared to a slower heavier impulse. My wife, who is pretty recoil sensitive, actually liked shooting a P220 more than a P226 because while the recoil pushed against her hand with more force, the gun didn't move around on her as much so she felt more in control of it. She shoots the same 2-second splits with either gun.

In my experience and talking with other folks who shoot at a higher level than me, the general consensus seems to be that they can both be shot about the same but the larger calibers require more effort in terms of grip, etc. It's the difference between lifting an ounce and lifting ten pounds. You can do either one but nonetheless the ten pound weight is still heavier and requires more effort.

[GJM]

If you were to take a similar weight and configuration bolt gun in .308, .300 WM., .375 H&H and .416 Remington, and shoot them all in a row, it it will be clear that as the caliber increases, so does the recoil. That doesn't mean that a good shooter can't shoot a .375 better than a less skilled shooter with the .308 or .300, or some designs handle recoil better than others, but apples to apples, you can't cheat bullet weight X velocity.

There may be good reasons to shoot the larger caliber, but felt recoil is not one of those reasons.

[Chuck Haggard]

I find that a lot of people think "I can handle a .45/.40/.357mag snub", but they mean with two hands on a square range standing on two feet on a warm spring day.

One handed or in a compromised position, not so much.

[Gio]

I have gone back and forth a lot between a 1911 in .45 (springfield pro) and a Glock 19/17 for duty and have done countless "comparison" tests between them. I also compete with a G35 (USPSA M class) in limited and production. I find that there is a tremendous difference in recoil between the 17/19 and the 1911 using factory ball and duty ammo. However, if I download the .45 to 170 PF reloads with a fast burning powder, it becomes extremely pleasant and controllable.

In my opinion, a 25 yd bill drill is a better indicator of your ability to control recoil than a 7 yard bill drill. At 7 yds, I can pull off a 1.8-1.9 bill drill with the 1911 whether using factory ammo or reloads vs. 1.9-2.0 with the Glocks. I can grip the gun hard enough that the recoil isn't going to take me out of the A zone at this distance. When I move back to 25 yards though, I shoot about a 2.9-3.3 bill drill with the Glocks or 1911 with 170pf reloads vs. 3.8-4.0 with the 1911 with factory ammo. I am also much more likely to pull shots into the D zone or even have complete misses with the 1911 with factory ammo because of the severity of recoil making it that much harder to reset the sight picture after each shot. We issue standard pressure .45 JHP's going about 850 fps. I can't imagine how much more difficult the 1911 would be to control at speed with 230 gr +p HST or the 220gr +p Hornady Critical Duty.