Why I don't rely on or employ the "Auto-forwad" emergency reload technique....

[NickDrak]

A question came up in another thread relating to emergency reload techniques used to send the slide into battery after inserting a new magazine. I did not want to derail that discussion too much and I wanted to share my experiences with employing the "Auto-forward" technique during an emergency reload and why I DO NOT use it on any of my pistols. My duty pistol is an M&P9 (fullsize) that I have owned for about a year and a half. Prior to that I had an earlier production M&P9 fullsize that I had owned for about 2 years prior.

For the first 2 1/2 years I carried the M&P9 as my duty weapon I almost exclusively relied on the "Auto-forward" technique when conducting emergency reloads during training. Nearly ALL of my training was done using FMJ/ball ammunition. During a training session where I was using some different types of hollowpoint ammo which included my duty ammo (Winchester Ranger 124gr +p Bonded), I experienced a malfunction nearly 5 to 7 times out of 10 which resulted in the top round in the newly inserted magazine getting hung-up at the bottom of the feed-ramp on my M&P9. I continued to experiment with different hollowpoint loads which ended-up with similar results.

I sold my earlier production M&P9 recently and I just picked up a brand-new M&P9 fullsize from my FFL today. I decided to test out the "Auto-forward" function of the new pistol to see what my results would be. Here ya go....

*Of course my Flip video camera software is not cooperating, and for some reason it will not upload the video I took onto YouTube. I will try again tomorrow.

Basically, The brand-new M&P9 that I just picked up today would not chamber a round when inserting the magazine in a manner that causes the slide to "Auto-forwad". It would chamber a round fine using the slide-stop and the over the top method of releasing the slide, but the "Auto-forward" causes all kinds of issues with this new pistol.

[Dagga Boy]

I could make a correlation between not carrying an HK pistol and your problems............but I won't. I have never had good luck with S&W auto's, and am actually mentally scared by them, so I really can't provide any insight other than I will take HK customer service over carrying a Smith......

In all seriousness, my Sig P220's and HK USP45's and HK 45C's have never had an issue at all with either training or duty ammunition. Same with my Glock 9mm's or SIg 9mm's. The 9mm's seemed to be less consistent with doing it than my .45's., and being I have been shooting the 9mm's more in my "paying the price" for my high round count .45 years, I depend on it far less than I did in the past. My Sig P-220 duty guns were very consistent, while everything else is a little hit and miss. I also rarely go to slide lock anymore, unless it is directed in a class or specific training I am doing. I have made the tactical reload prior to holstering a good "habit", so it cuts down on my shooter induced malfunction of running out of bullets.

None of my 1911's will auto-forward, which should be a good thing.

[GJM]

1) Nick, I just can't figure out why I don't experience stoppages, with my M&P or other pistols, and you get them so consistently -- so I would like to see a video of the stoppage happening to you and compare technique?

2) While it would be a limited market opportunity, I have always thought a great bumper sticker would be "you take an M&P to a match and an HK to a war."

[vecdran]

I've always viewed auto-forward as "neat", but not something I would rely on. I've only ever been able to do it while administratively loading, never while under stress or the timer.

[DocGKR]

Contrary to Nyeti, whose views I truly respect, I've had very good luck with S&W autos--both 3rd gen and current M&P's. My current M&P45 is the most accurate and reliable pistol right out of the box I have yet owned...as accurate as my 1911's and reliable as my 9 mm Glocks.

[TCinVA]

I've seen several reports of very recently purchased M&P pistols that are not auto-forwarding, all from people who have other M&P's that do it. In the other reports I've seen the slide won't budge. If I had to guess I'd say that there was an engineering change somewhere along the line either to the lock/release lever itself or in the spring tensions involved that's producing this. I don't know if any agency customers complained to Smith about the propensity for auto-forward on the M&P resulting in a deliberate attempt to reduce or eliminate the phenomenon, or if they impacted it through an engineering change designed to solve some other problem.

Your description sounds different...is the slide dropping from lock but experiencing a hangup as the round is being fed into the chamber?

When the pistol didn't auto-forward, did you start smacking it harder to try and make it auto forward?

What condition are your magazines in?

[JDM]

FWIW, of the four M&Ps I've owned, that is a .357SIG, .45f. And two 9fs, none have, that I recall ever auto-forwarded.

[GJM]

Contrary to Nyeti, whose views I truly respect, I've had very good luck with S&W autos--both 3rd gen and current M&P's. My current M&P45 is the most accurate and reliable pistol right out of the box I have yet owned...as accurate as my 1911's and reliable as my 9 mm Glocks.

1) I wouldn't blow too much air up DB's skirt or he may start acting out.

2) While I can't complain about the M&P 45's besides crappy triggers which Apex has solved, and the wimpy thumb safety which your dental tools appear to have solved, the 9's seem to have had some growing pains between issues with accuracy, the dead trigger, and the extractor. Just in the last month, I read where Erick had extraction issues with your 9 at the recent course, my buddy had a new 9 that needed an Apex FRE to run, and I had a new 9C that needed to go back to Smith for extraction problems. Not sure if the problem is the extractor was designed for the .40, and used in the 9's, but it seems like Smith would be better off to license the Apex FRE or redesign what they have.

[NickDrak]

Finally got the vid uploaded on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-w2i...e_gdata_player

[DocGKR]

GJM--I have the most experience with M&P40 & 45's--these have generally proven quite outstanding and are my favorite pistols in these calibers. The M&P9's certainly have been more problematic, which is one of the reasons I am still using older 3rd gen 9 mm Glocks. The M&P9 Erick borrowed had fired 1000 malfunction free rounds before I acquired it; I then put an additional 600 rds through it before the McNamera course--these 1600 rounds were all Federal 147 gr FMJ and HST. As you noted, Erick then had multiple problems with this same M&P9 at TMACS while using 115 gr FMJ. The weird part is that after the course, my son put 300 rounds of Federal 147 gr FMJ and M882 ball though it with no malfunctions. The pistol recently got another 200 rounds of 124 gr +P Gold Dot through it with no issues. If it goes another 1500 rounds without further problems, I am going to chalk Erick's class experience up as some weird event. If it does have problems, it will get an Apex extractor. This particular M&P9 has proven acceptably accurate, so it will not likely need the Barsto/Apex barrel upgrade. M&P dead trigger issues have been solved with the more powerful spring in the new sear housing assemblies.