Is having a hammer for Appendix carry worth changing platforms?

[NorthernHeat]

I have been going back and forth on my off duty carry.

On duty I have a Gen 4 G34 as a primary and carry a Gen 4 G26 in a pocket as a backup.

I have been very happy with this setup and have been trying to focus on having one main platform (Glock, M&P, HK) and focusing more on shooting and less on changing guns/equipment all the time.

At the same time, over the past couple years I have come to really love appendix carry for my off duty setup and with great holsters like 5Shot, JRC and JMCK it makes it easy to carry a mid to full size gun appendix.

I began carrying a Glock 19 off duty and was very happy with it.

However, more I read on PF.com about appendix carry, I guess I started to develop a "fear" you could say of carrying a gun appendix without it having a LEM or DAO type setup where you could trap the hammer down with your thumb.

This caused me to go out and buy a HK P30 in LEM.

I very much like this gun and shoot it well, but again, I would really like to consolidate my carry pistols to the same platform/sights/triggers.

Do you think that carrying the G19 off duty (being striker fired) is un safe enough that I should begin to buy holsters/mags/etc for the P30 off duty, even thought he P30 has different trigger, mag release, feel than the guns I am trying to focus and train around?

I guess what I am asking is, is the Glock carried appendix so unsafe that it is worth investing time/money/energy in 2 different platforms, just to have a hammer on my off duty carry?

[BaiHu]

Not if you get a "gadget".

[ToddG]

I doubt this answer will help you at all, but nonetheless:

• Personally, I will never again carry a pistol appendix unless it has a positive means for me to prevent discharge of the pistol while holstering. This means either a part (such as the hammer) I can control or a positive action-blocking safety I can engage. Given that the pistol is pointed at my femoral artery, that extra redundant level of safety is, to me, critical.
• Plenty of people on the forum (and elsewhere) have carried a striker fired gun in an appendix holster for many years without incident. They exercise high levels of safety and awareness while holstering -- at least we hope they do -- and are comfortable taking a risk that I am not.
• All else being equal, I am a firm believer in having a single "operating system" for the guns that I carry to the extent possible.

In your place, my solution would be to ask for permission to carry the P30 on duty.

[NorthernHeat]

BaiHu- I wish it was that simple

Todd-The more I carried and trained with the Glock appendix, the more uncomfortable I became with the operation of re-holstering a striker fired gun into the appendix position. This makes me agree with you that the extra safety of having a manual safety or a hammer to control (even thought some people call it unnecessary) is a must have.

I read a lot of posts by a lot of shooters smarter than I that carry appendix a SF gun and say that they have had no problems with it, and even though I believe them, all I keep saying to myself is "it only takes one mistake"... and if there is any way I can keep from having that "one mistake" I would like to do so.

I guess I came to the conclusion of having the Glocks on duty because I like the magazine interchangeability between my backup and primary (this is a big reason I went with a subcompact Glock and a full size Glock for duty) especially when on duty.

I have considered the idea of committing to the P30 for off duty, a P30L for on duty with a WML, and a P2000sk as my backup on duty because if I remember correctly, the P2000sk accepts P30 mags and is almost the size of the g26 (correct me if I'm wrong on that size comparison).

I have gone between 1911s, M&Ps, Glocks and now to HK which is why I am very much looking to decide on a platform and stick with it and try and focus more on the software side of things when it comes to shooting more than the hardware side of things...

[ToddG]

BaiHu- I wish it was that simple

Me, too!

I guess I came to the conclusion of having the Glocks on duty because I like the magazine interchangeability between my backup and primary (this is a big reason I went with a subcompact Glock and a full size Glock for duty) especially when on duty.

Can anyone recall an instance where having mag compatibility between primary and secondary made a difference in a lethal encounter? I cannot. While I certainly see it as beneficial from a hypothetical standpoint, realistically it wouldn't be a powerful motivator for me. How many guys carry j-frames as backups?

I have considered the idea of committing to the P30 for off duty, a P30L for on duty with a WML, and a P2000sk as my backup on duty because if I remember correctly, the P2000sk accepts P30 mags and is almost the size of the g26 (correct me if I'm wrong on that size comparison).

Correct on both counts.

[Up1911Fan]

I wish there was some sort of device on the market to give me an extra margin of safety when reholstering my Glock's .

[NorthernHeat]

So Todd, would you say if the P30/P30L is committed to, would you recommend the J-frame or the P2000SK as the backup?

I agree that I have never heard of a instance that the sub-compact version of a primary gun using the full size mags has been deployed on duty, but it always makes ya warm and fuzzy inside knowing it's a possibility

I have heard (actually happened where I work) where a primary gun was taken by a bad guy and the officer was able to deploy his backup and put his backup (J-Frame) in the bad guys stomach and pull the trigger until the cylinder got caught up in the bad guys shirt (4 out of 5 shots) and the good guy went home at the end of the day... so that does show me that the J-Frame is still a very capable backup gun.

There is actually a lot more to the story I mentioned above..for one thing, a manual safety on that specific duty gun making it so the bad guy could not figure out how to use the officers own duty pistol against him. This caused the bad guy to use the gun (that he could not figure out how to use) as a club against the officer.

But that is a story for another day...

[ToddG]

NH -- Quite a few similar stories are why so many in-the-know guys actually like a positive manual safety on their pistols. Nonetheless, such safeties have for the most part become rejected by conventional wisdom and most LE agencies specifically reject them in acquisition specifications.

re: j-frame vs P2000SK, I'd take the SK simply for more power and more firepower as well as commonality of function. But the j does have its own benefits.

The only two guns I've ever carried as backups were a j and a LCR, and I've never been a cop. So my advice should probably not be taken as authoritative on the subject.

[DocGKR]

If you want a striker fired pistol with a safety, then the M&P9c/M&P9 is a good combination for duty use as well as off-duty CCW.

If you want a hammer fired pistol, then the HK's work fine.

If you want a proven easy to maintain striker fired pistol, then go with the Glock and exercise due diligence.

Things to consider are angling the holster AWAY from critical anatomic parts when re-holstering, as well as simply leaving the pistol in the holster when taking it on and off.

FWIW, I am currently qual'd on Glocks and M&P's and have no issue carrying either of them AIWB...

[NorthernHeat]

I guess another thing that pushes me toward Glocks is that our dept (like most others) is a dept that provides Glocks as duty weapons.

Even thought I do not use the provided Glock, (which is a stock G17 Gen 4) by me using a personally owned Glock means I can use the dept provided extra gear like holsters, mags, springs (and other small parts) that the dept provides. Also the range staff are Glock guys which means if I have a problem with a gun, it is easily fixed by on site staff who have the tools and knowledge to assist me if I cannot remedy the problem.

Reading what Doc wrote about his 19 being his "new J-Frame" really pushed me back into looking at the 19 as an off duty option also.

I had all but sworn off Glocks when dealing with the Gen 3's that I was NOT a fan of, but from when I was able to get my hands on Gen 4s (that work like Glocks should), I have been all too happy to go to the Gen 4s in whatever flavor is needed at the time, whenever possible.