Safety in IDPA Competition

[rsa-otc]

The reason I pose the question is that I have had 2 AD reloading a Glock 34 and both times my finger was on the frame and it was really cold. I was applying pressure to the frame with my finger and it slipped off and wacked the trigger. For me and G34, actually CZ too, I find it safer and more comfortable to sort of wrap the front of the trigger guard. My guess is that the frame index was really started by instructors working with multiple pupils and in this setting I could see being important so that a bystander would know that the finger is off the trigger.

Actually the frame register came out of the Law Enforcement field in the mid 80's. If memory serves me right I think it was Emanuel Kaphelsohn defending an officer in an accidental shooting who first brought to fore the involuntary physiological issues that OrigamiAK mentioned. It was then researched by many instructors and found to be valid.

In 25 years I have yet to find anyone whose hand was to small to achieve a solid frame register. For those who use their trigger finger to release the magazine either with the traditional button or the non traditional paddle, there is no reason after the magazine is released for the finger not to immediately assume a frame register.

Leroy if you can actually "wrap" your finger around the front of the trigger guard I see no issues with that. A lot of people don't have long enough fingers to achieve the wrap. If you are just getting the pad of the trigger finger on the side of the trigger guard that is an issue. In testing fingers registered on the side of the trigger guard were more likely to slip and engage the trigger under the conditions that triggered the physiological responses mentioned earlier.

When I SO if your finger is outside the trigger when required even if it is not registered on the frame you are golden. I will mention/suggest to the shooter at Club matches that a frame register will be safer in the most likely event that would cause a finger to involuntary migrate to the trigger, that being loss of balance/tripping.

[JackRock]

ALeroy if you can actually "wrap" your finger around the front of the trigger guard I see no issues with that. A lot of people don't have long enough fingers to achieve the wrap. If you are just getting the pad of the trigger finger on the side of the trigger guard that is an issue. In testing fingers registered on the side of the trigger guard were more likely to slip and engage the trigger under the conditions that triggered the physiological responses mentioned earlier.

Also, I would point out that not all firearm models let this technique work. I have relatively small hands, and can wrap my index finger around a few guards. But I shoot my PPQ almost exclusively (it's the only one I currently own), and there's no way in Hades that I could safely place my index finger on the guard. It barely touches the guard at the front, and even with minimal pressure to it, it starts to slip nearly immediately. Thankfully, I have no problem placing it alongside the frame body, to the point that it's now second nature.

[Dagga Boy]

This thread is funny. As soon as somebody says something to Jerry Miculeck or Vogel, then its serious. Its not. There are a bunch of ways for a ND to happen that doesn't involve any conscious action. The trigger finger in the trigger guard, but not on the trigger, or in early is very common. It is even worse on the unload and show clear as well. Many fingers compress into the trigger guard as soon as they grasp the slide and start applying pressure. I have never seen anyone say anything at any venue. I see it because I am hyper sensitive to it, and actually looking for it.
While not IDPA, since getting back to shooting competitively, I have really had to work on my draw-stroke to go to the same draw I use on my auto defensive carry pistol to delay my finger entry on my 686SSR. It is a little slower, but worth the investment. For many it is not worth the time, and for the top level guys a delayed finger can be the difference in winning and second.

[Mr_White]

An actual, pressed into the frame or slide, register position can take a lot of attention and effort from trainers and students to establish, but it's gotta be done and it's worth it. The rudimentary 'outside the trigger guard' is distinctly less good, IMHO.

[GJM]

An actual, pressed into the frame or slide, register position can take a lot of attention and effort from trainers and students to establish, but it's gotta be done and it's worth it. The rudimentary 'outside the trigger guard' is distinctly less good, IMHO.

Gabe, would this work for you?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

An actual, pressed into the frame or slide, register position can take a lot of attention and effort from trainers and students to establish, but it's gotta be done and it's worth it. The rudimentary 'outside the trigger guard' is distinctly less good, IMHO.

I didn't start taking this seriously until recently for some reason, but for the last while I have been trying to program in the ejection port register.

I used to be a flat-on-the-frame guy.

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[Dagga Boy]

[QUOTE=GJM;271949]Gabe, would this work for you?

What is Putin's class in IDPA....;-)

[YVK]

Gabe, would this work for you?

Think twice before saying anything critical, Origami.

[Mr_White]

Gabe, would this work for you?

In competition, yes, since it satisfies the rules.

In foundational training it would be unacceptable and would be persistently corrected.

In an open enrollment class with students of a variety of backgrounds and where many of those backgrounds include having been taught by legitimate trainers who I happen to disagree with on this point, I'll address the issue but not penalize the student if they use the rudimentary outside the trigger guard position.

I didn't start taking this seriously until recently for some reason, but for the last while I have been trying to program in the ejection port register.

I used to be a flat-on-the-frame guy.

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I don't mind flat on the frame. Absolutely no lower than the frame though. I've seen the super high ejection port to be hand and gun dependent to some degree.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I imagine they're probably both a bit gun-dependant. I had not thought about it until just now but flat was my preference on Glocks and EP is my preference on 1911s.

At this time I am skeptical of the existence of other pistols. Not committed to their absence, maybe, but agunostic.

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