Trigger Reset - The Discussion

[ToddG]

Donovan -- Can't see the email in TapaTalk with my iPad, so I'm jumping to some conclusions here that might not be fair but...

I have a hard time believing anyone can adequately track and call his sights performing 0.08 splits. The technique you mentioned might work when you're thinking in advance to hit a high-probability target from a static or near-static position and you have great recoil management. Furthermore, what happens during longer strings of shots on a single target? The muzzle is going to keep rising if the gun isn't incredibly flat shooting.

Basically, you're talking about a gun set up to hammer almost by itself. Great for gun games where most targets are high probability and most targets call for two shots per, etc. Beyond that, I'm skeptical. But if you set a gun up that way, definitely let us know what you think.

[Dagga Boy]

Trigger reset saved my shooting program. Of course I am always using some ancient technique, but I know the stuff I use works for sure when it counts. When I went to LAPD Metro D Platoon (SWAT) in 1989 to steal their shooting program for my agency, I ran into a huge issue. The LAPD guys were using 1911's. My guys shot Sig P-220's. My people could not pass their qual course. It mostly involved controlled pairs and failure drills, so the DA/SA transition was killing both me and my guys. Around the same time I watched some high speed video (this was very whiz bang back then) of Tommy Campbell shooting. The way he worked the trigger with the reset was instrumental in us using the reset method to be able to manage the DA/SA transition. Using this method, we were able to improve our shooting enough to be able to pass the LAPD SWAT Qual courses. It also helped me a ton when shooting competitively. This was especially true of the police matches where I was shooting a duty gun out of a level three security holster.

I pretty much teach the reset plus a little method to the L/E folks. For me personally, I have changed some stuff after a very tough class with Larry Vickers. I reset in recoil. All of my Glocks are set up with all stock parts that have a little more take up on the initial shot and a very short reset at the factory 5.5lb. weight. This is the best set up for me on a daily carried street gun. There is a huge difference between shooting a street gun with L/E trigger weights vs. a steel 1911 with a trigger pull weight that is below the weight of the gun itself.

[mc1911]

Riding the trigger out to the reset:

I never had done that until a friend of mine showed me on his Glock. I used to shoot 1911s and of course that doesn't work on those. Since my friend was a better shooter than I, I gave it a try. But I and some friends did it at a class with an instructor I won't name at Universal Shooting Academy and when he saw us doing that he called everything cold and stopped the whole class. He said that he is open to people trying things but when it comes to that technique, he said absolutely not. Trigger prep, period. He said that riding the reset was an out-dated and inferior technique.

Since he is better than I will ever be, I got on board with what he said and I've been shooting the best I ever have since then. The trigger freeze that Todd mentioned can be a real problem using the other method. I have by no stretch mastered the technique of prepping, but even what I am able to do produces far better results than riding the reset.

[mc1911]

Interestingly, Manny called riding the reset "1970s technique."

Ok, I wasn't going to name Manny but then I saw beltjones post this so I'll come clean. This is exactly what Manny said to us.

[Simon]

After reading the response, I see that my question should be in another thread, however what I got out of this is that if you "ride the reset" you are going to need a strong trigger return spring to keep from short stroking the trigger. I think what I do is get off the trigger, then prep it during recoil. I hope you guys don,t get to upset with me, but I see that my competitive experience is years out of date, and we don't use the same terminology.

[SLG]

I fall into the "slap everything" camp, whether it's my 5# 1911 or my 10# sig DA shot. I don't do this because it's the best way, I do it because it works for me. Until Leatham pointed it out to me, I had no idea that's quite what I was doing. From a teaching perspective, I agree with Todd, though I usually tell people that as long as you don't slam through the pull, coming off the trigger during reset will not hurt you. The issue is how fast you get back to where you want to be, not how short a distance your finger moves.

What will hurt you is hunting for the reset point, both because of the freeze factor, as well as the limit it places on your speed.

[Odin Bravo One]

Like SLG, I too fall into the "Slap the snot out of it" group.

I started out shooting a G22 in my initial pistol shooting days and was taught about the reset thing. Then I switched to a DA/SA Sig about 15 years ago, and was taught to slap the trigger. I have been slapping ever since. Todd G brought it up at an AFHF a couple of years back, and I gave the reset thing another test run throughout the duration of the course and about 2 weeks after.

Times on drills were but a wee bit slower, and not really attributed to the technique so much as my consciously having to work on the technique. I switched back to slapping the trigger because it is what I am comfortable with, and it works ok for me. It works really great on my toy guns like the 1911's, but I am just as effective with the technique on my run of the mill, daily carry DA/SA Sig.

As brought up by the OP, the results are downrange. I don't care how someone came to the end result, so long is it was effective. If it's not effective, then perhaps looking for a better way is in order. Until then, roll with what works.

[Wheeler]

In regards to S&W revolvers, with the caveat that all my guns are stock internally, the reset is full trigger extension, anything shorter will result in short stroking which will cause the gun to skip a cylinder. Of course a different trigger return spring will affect the speed at which that happens.

I tend to shoot every gun I pick up like a revolver. In other words I allow the trigger to reset at the full position. My finger never leaves the trigger. I've always considered "slapping the trigger" the process in which a shooter's finger leaves the trigger during or after full reset and then returns to the trigger. This usually results in a difficulty to manage recoil and proper sight alignment.

Wheeler

[DonovanM]

Donovan -- Can't see the email in TapaTalk with my iPad, so I'm jumping to some conclusions here that might not be fair but...

I have a hard time believing anyone can adequately track and call his sights performing 0.08 splits. The technique you mentioned might work when you're thinking in advance to hit a high-probability target from a static or near-static position and you have great recoil management. Furthermore, what happens during longer strings of shots on a single target? The muzzle is going to keep rising if the gun isn't incredibly flat shooting.

Basically, you're talking about a gun set up to hammer almost by itself. Great for gun games where most targets are high probability and most targets call for two shots per, etc. Beyond that, I'm skeptical. But if you set a gun up that way, definitely let us know what you think.

FWIW, I agree. I'm not aiming to duplicate these results but I'm interested to see how just relaxing my trigger finger will change things.

[Odin Bravo One]

For clarification purposes, by "slap" I mean finger coming completely off the trigger, as Wheeler described it.