Glock trigger manipulation

[Surf]

My finger position does not vary one versus two hands. I am between the tip and first crease, sort of middle of the pad.

Origami, independently, reached the same conclusion as I did as regards what part of the finger he uses, and pressing the trigger in one continuous motion.

Sorry if I confused your post or my reply was confusing, but I did not mean to imply that you use more finger when shooting one handed, just that I tend to use more finger when shooting one handed which is what I was assuming and from your description would be more like your finger placement. So yes, I do get a touch more finger on the trigger when shooting one handed which is probably more like your normal finger placement that you describe. At no point do I ever get into the first grove or first joint on the trigger.

If you press the trigger straight back, why does it make sense to bifurcate the press into two (or more) parts, with the wall as an intermediate stop, since the wall doesn't fire the shot?

I don't worry about "the wall" in the majority of my shooting. I only focus on that if I am going for extreme precision, generally seen at very long distance or for up close say on one hole type precision.

I do indeed find a notable difference in the trigger stroke and therefore the reason why I break it up. I am somewhat nitpicking and some might think I am a bit crazy, but the results for myself are clear, so bear with me as I try to explain what I am feeling / doing. I am pretty far out on my trigger finger this gets me more to the tip and provides for better tactile feedback. Keeping this in mind, when I pull a Glock trigger I feel 3 distinct phases with 2 separate engagements. Now I am not talking about grit or crunchiness aka creep, but two actual engagement points. When I pull the Glock trigger from its forward most position you have a very easy pull right up to the first engagement point. This first engagement point is where the disconnect of the trigger bar hits the firing pin safety and is about midway between the very forward position and "the wall". I can distinctly feel that firing pin safety hiccup and see it in my sights.

Once the trigger bar disconnect contacts the firing pin safety the trigger drag increases or pull weight increases as the firing pin safety and spring is being compressed and pushed up into the slide. From this point we hit "the wall" and we have the normal pressure from the rear of the trigger bar contacting the connector and the rear of the cruciform giving the firing pin more compression, until finally the connector forces down the trigger bar / cruciform into the release notch of the trigger housing mechanism and releasing the striker. When dry firing the release of the striker and the spring tension snapping it forward, we can see a notable "boing" or "twang" and slight shift or movement in the slide which is also an influence on the weapon as we fire. We just don't notice that when live firing, but it exists as an influence on the weapon and can influence accuracy but I am digressing a bit.

So for myself I do see a noted difference in reading my sights in my sight alignment / picture between the two different pull types. Even with a well practiced and stable platform using the all the way from the front and single pull method I see an ever so slight increase in movement or inconsistency in the "wobble zone" and I see that happen at the firing pin safety engagement and again as I hit "the wall" and continue through to break point. So yes when I shoot for very long distance or just extreme precision, I stay very relaxed as I present. I get rid of the pre-travel and the felt decompression of the firing pin safety until I hit "the wall". From here, this is really my starting point with everything, sight alignment, sight picture breathing. I exhale to get the body calm while getting an alignment / picture and I refine the "wobble zone". This is where I start the pull with steady and consistent rearward pressure. I see a noticeable decrease of movement in my sights as I don't hit "stages" during the pull and my wobble zone stays smaller.

I am not saying that this works for everyone but at least for myself when I shoot long distance especially (which is fairly regular), I can clearly see the difference in my own performance with hits on target. As I sit here now and play with the SIRT, not quite exactly the same trigger feeling but close, I also see a slight inconsistency when starting from the front as opposed to taking out the pre-travel first. The laser reflects the difference that my hands feel and eyes see.

Bottom line is there is not much room for me to offer critique to great shooters like yourself and OAK especially on a forum. Also nothing is going to work the same for everyone and I do know quite a few people from both camps that perform well with either method. Oddly enough I come from a revolver carrying era into a DA/SA decade and a half, so one might think I might like more finger and one consistent pull technique, which I did, but now find myself getting away from that if / when I need extreme precision. What works for me right now, I can say with 100% confidence that I hope a year from now I can then say that I have tweaked something to continue to improve myself. Maybe I just need to start sucking less, or take up golf again, so I can have something new to over analyze.

[GJM]

Surf, I think this falls into art not science, and the more discussion the better.

[lightning fast]

Sounds like good software between your ears. I.e. ignore the hardware.

I'd quote "he who shall not be named" around here, but one of the best lessons I took away from my class was, boiled down, to the effect of "Just pull the trigger straight back." Gun doesn't matter. Trigger doesn't matter. Just pull it straight to the rear. Obviously, this is a concept that takes practice, but something that's really gone to my heart.

[Dagga Boy]

Surf, I think this falls into art not science, and the more discussion the better.

Absolutely!

[LOKNLOD]

I think that LEM trigger, with its unique features, is very helpful in understanding "dos and don'ts" of a trigger press.

By far the best thing I did for my Glock shooting, and pistol shooting in general, was spend a year or two trying really hard with the LEM.

Larry Vickers described the triggers in my Glocks as just like a little DA revolver.

Due to observing how you shot them, or due to the feel the way you had them set up? If the latter, how did you have them set up?

[GJM]

By far the best thing I did for my Glock shooting, and pistol shooting in general, was spend a year or two trying really hard with the LEM.



Due to observing how you shot them, or due to the feel the way you had them set up? If the latter, how did you have them set up?

Disregard, he is just trying to justify all the money he spent with Bruce Gray on trigger work.

[LOKNLOD]

Disregard, he is just trying to justify all the money he spent with Bruce Gray on trigger work.

LOL. Dude don't harsh my mellow I'm trying to talk myself into a VP9 and an AUG.

[GJM]

LOL. Dude don't harsh my mellow I'm trying to talk myself into a VP9 and an AUG.

That kind of talk gets Darryl hot. Expect his next class to be a VP9/AUG combo course.

[Dagga Boy]

That kind of talk gets Darryl hot. Expect his next class to be a VP9/AUG combo course.

You read my mind!

Seriously, Don Ellis (the Glock Guy) set up all my Glocks. I have him put in little more take up initially to make sure I really want to do it on the first round, and very short reset. They sort of build like a DA shot initially. I found on the LEM that treating the initial take up just like a bunch of slack and then build through the rest worked best for me.

[LOKNLOD]

That kind of talk gets Darryl hot. Expect his next class to be a VP9/AUG combo course.

On the one hand, this sounds like a great class... On the other hand, I'm very uncomfortable with the thought of making another man hot by any means not involving pressurized application of ignited jellied fuels.