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Thread: Practical Competition Rules

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lot2Learn View Post
    "Power factor... Not a fan. If the premise is defensive we have enough data to argue away power factor. "

    I don't think that is the point. PF is more like a handicap. If your gun is shooting 165pf, it is going to recoil more than an all steel 9mm shooting 130pf bunny fart round. That is why C are more in major. I don't believe it has anything to do with "defensive" scenarios.
    Even in that case it shouldn't exist. No one forces anyone to pick a heavier recoiling caliber.

    In NRA Highpower Rifle those shooting bolt action rifles in calibers heavier than 223 Remington don't get a different set of scoring rings on the target compared to those who choose to use semi auto rifles in 223.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    Even in that case it shouldn't exist. No one forces anyone to pick a heavier recoiling caliber.

    In NRA Highpower Rifle those shooting bolt action rifles in calibers heavier than 223 Remington don't get a different set of scoring rings on the target compared to those who choose to use semi auto rifles in 223.
    But, Highpower doesn't stress speed to any real extent and not having a minimum PF would mean people could setup a pistol to cycle loads that no one would consider "practical." This has already happened in 3 gun nation. Because the pro series generally doesn't have any targets beyond a 100 yards and lacks a minimum PF, many shooters are shooting a very light load that wouldn't come close to cycling in a standard AR.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter rob_s's Avatar
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    I've never really understood all the hubub about various rules. Most complaints seem to be of the special snowflake variety and not about the good of the game or fairness. Things like "why can't I use my custom blaster 4 million carried in my buttcrack and chambered in 400 dingleberry with my reload in my mouth like I would "in the real world". and "oh, I'm more interested in eating 47 cheeseburgers than being good at the game I claim to love so could we please shoot the whole thing from my toilet? thanks!" just seem silly to me.

    My primary beef with most shooting games (sorry, these are not sports) is the scoring. USPSA is just ridiculous, and IDPA is disingenuous (if -1 is -0.5 seconds, then put "-0.5 on the goddamn target).

    I like a neutralized/non-neutralized scoring system. We've used one for almost a decade at the carbine matches I started and by the end of a single stage all but the dumbest of shooters have the whole thing sorted.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshs View Post
    But, Highpower doesn't stress speed to any real extent
    Speed is relative. NRA HP rapid fire seems glacially slow compared to USPSA or 3 gun, until you consider that you have 70 seconds to shoot a 10 shot 2 MOA group at 300 yards without optics and with only your body and a sling for support and doing a mandatory mag change on the clock. Recovery from recoil DOES matter in that and those shooting semi auto 223s have a marked advantage.


    Quote Originally Posted by joshs View Post
    and not having a minimum PF would mean people could setup a pistol to cycle loads that no one would consider "practical."
    Which makes the case for a PF floor, but not for preferential scoring based on PF

  5. #15
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    The application matters here. I just assumed we were talking about Defensive Pistol Shooting and didn't consider stuff like Bianchi.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    The application matters here. I just assumed we were talking about Defensive Pistol Shooting and didn't consider stuff like Bianchi.
    Cody
    There is NO valid reason for giving preferential scoring to those shooting a higher power factor. If you want to talk practical, a marginal hit with a 45 ACP is just as worthless as one with a 9 mm.

    Period.

    If you want a PF floor to prevent extreme gaming fine. But don't reward inaccuracy by giving preferential scoring to higher PFs. In fact, you, who hates HF scoring, should understand that getting scored major is what makes it possible to shoot a bunch of Cs really fast and beat someone with better accuracy but slightly slower.

  7. #17
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    There is NO valid reason for giving preferential scoring to those shooting a higher power factor. If you want to talk practical, a marginal hit with a 45 ACP is just as worthless as one with a 9 mm.

    Period.

    If you want a PF floor to prevent extreme gaming fine. But don't reward inaccuracy by giving preferential scoring to higher PFs. In fact, you, who hates HF scoring, should understand that getting scored major is what makes it possible to shoot a bunch of Cs really fast and beat someone with better accuracy but slightly slower.
    I am easily convinced on this one. I agree. But sports should support those who like higher PF shooting. Is there a way to make it work for them?
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  8. #18
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    Why should they? What is the relevance?
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cclaxton View Post
    But sports should support those who like higher PF shooting. Is there a way to make it work for them?
    Why? If someone wants to handicap himself, why should the rest of the field accomodate them.

    If you want to shoot something with more recoil, work harder.

  10. #20
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    Why? If someone wants to handicap himself, why should the rest of the field accomodate them.

    If you want to shoot something with more recoil, work harder.
    A sport should work to be inclusive rather than exclusive. Why do shooters continue to love and shoot their unreliable 1911's?
    I am not wise enough to answer that one.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

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