New Wilson Combat Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical

[GJM]

Yeah, that's what Trooper224 said.

Moot point right now; dunno if I'll even still be interested when these become available again. I like the 92, clunkiness and all… but when I pick up my P30, my lizard brain says "So, tell me again WHY you want that brick when you have this???"

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The reason is while the P30 feels good, the 92 will shoot circles around any P30. That is a fact, not opinion.

[LHS]

Any further gouge on this? I bought the Beretta .22 kit for grandson #2's "M9" commercial (that had a D spring) and was getting spotty ignition on CCI Mini-Mags. Put a standard main spring in- with predictable results on the trigger pull- and reliability instantly became 100%.

I'm seriously considering one of these Brigadier Tacticals (been waffling back and forth between it and the M9A3; the latter won't be available for who-knows-how-long, and I think I like the features of this Wilson gun better anyway), but I wonder if the .22 kit will work with it.

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Not yet; I'm still waiting to get it back.

[LSP972]

The reason is while the P30 feels good, the 92 will shoot circles around any P30. That is a fact, not opinion.

I suppose that depends upon your definition of circles.

Your statement is like the guys who confuse inherent accuracy with practical accuracy; and is a bit surprising, since you, of all people, understand that individual reactions to various features/abilities can generate profound differences in perceptions/performance.

To wit; perhaps the Beretta shoots rings around any P30 for YOU.

For ME, I have a lot of time behind TDA pistols, and enough behind several 92s to know that, if I'm shooting for all the cards (as in, my life or others' lives, not some competition or attempt to improve my split times), I want an HK LEM pistol in my hands.

And no, I'm not offended or otherwise annoyed by your statement… just surprised that you would make such a blatant/blanket pronouncement.

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[GJM]

I am referring to pure shootability, and was answering your musing as to why anyone would want/carry/shoot a 92 when it feels like it does, and the P30, by comparison feels so good in the hands. If it were just my experience, as to shootability, I would call it my opinion. When you consider the experience of folks like Ernest Langdon, I call it fact.

It doesn't detract one bit from the P30 being a fantastic pistol. One that I would carry without a second thought into harm's way. I have used a P30 .40 to stop a moose charge inside five yards, that surely would have injured my wife and I, and did this in inclement winter conditions.

Despite my affection for the P30, pistol matches are designed to tease out small differences in ability, and on that count the P30 falls way short of a 92.

[YVK]

In a more laconic form, because nobody won nationals or made a gm with a LEM pistol. And you can't jerk it like Robbie says :-D

[David B.]

In a more laconic form, because nobody won nationals or made a gm with a LEM pistol. And you can't jerk it like Robbie says :-D

Thats's funny! (if you're familiar with the other thread)

God Bless,
David

[LSP972]

When you consider the experience of folks like Ernest Langdon, I call it fact.

Without taking anything away from Ernest… we're back to what YOU think. And back to competition-based opinions.

I'm glad the P30 saved you and your wife; which kind of reinforces my position on the matter. But its pretty obvious that we have widely differing ways of looking at the problem.

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[JAD]

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?8821-Why-the-P30

Sold me one.

[ToddG]

The reason is while the P30 feels good, the 92 will shoot circles around any P30. That is a fact, not opinion.

How the heck is that fact?

How was it quantified? You mentioned Ernest. Given his years and years of Beretta experience, for quite a while he chose an HK LEM as his carry gun. That's not to say it's quantifiable fact that the P30 shoots circles around the Beretta or even that Ernest, all things considered, even preferred the HK once availability of 'G' models, etc., became more equal. But I'd be hard pressed to believe that Ernest would say that the Beretta would be the best choice for every shooter under every circumstance.

[GJM]

This was the question I was responding to:

"I like the 92, clunkiness and all… but when I pick up my P30, my lizard brain says "So, tell me again WHY you want that brick when you have this???"

This is a Beretta thread, not a P30 thread. Ernest has personally told me that the P30 is a fine defensive pistol, but that the Beretta is far more shootable. That is also my personal experience. That is also what I have observed following YVK and his Beretta/P30 experience. That is consistent with Stoeger winning Production in the Nationals with a 92. Consistent with Ernest and Les K making GM with a 92. Frankly consistent with HK bringing out the VP9 and the difference in shootability between the VP9 and the P30. Consistent with nobody I am aware of making GM with a P30 LEM.

This is not to say the P30 isn't a fine pistol as I have said here and countless times over the years. Not suggesting the P30 isn't a great defensive pistol. I NEVER said the 92 is a better choice for every shooter or whatever you said. Only saying the 92 is more shootable than a P30. Frankly, I can't imagine any informed and skilled competitive shooter thinking otherwise.