Winchester 94 30-30 accuracy?

[ASH556]

I have inherited my grandpa's Winchester '94 in .30-30. When I got it a year or so ago, the only ammo I could find was some 150gr S&B. I tried to shoot it yesterday to confirm 100yd zero with irons and man, the darn thing won't group worth a flip. I'm talking, can't even keep rounds on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper. I've never messed much with lever guns, at least not shooting them for accuracy beyond maybe 25 yds. Is this to be expected? They're just not very accurate? Maybe some bad ammo? I know this is all kind of vague and will probably require some diagnosis. I'm just on a limited budget and would rather spend $$$ on 9mm and 5.56 ammo than multiple $20/box .30-30 ammo trying to find a load this rifle likes. It's a heirloom gun and I'd like to kill a deer or two with it, but no real plans for it beyond that.

Thanks!

[JHC]

I've been through a handful of lever action .30-30s. Best was a beat up 20" 94 that would group into 3-4" inches at 100 yds with my eyes and irons. I sold it. I had a Marlin 336 that was as good one year and then triple that the next. I found out much later that I may not have cleaned it thoroughly enough the prior deer season having hunted it through what turned into heavy rain. I was later tutored that I should have removed all the wood and fully detail stripped it. I cut those corners. So IDK. They vary.

I'll use my ARs in the future if hunting in wet weather. Malmute might have more solid input.

[Malamute]

From what your saying right off, start with a really good cleaning, and be sure it isn't fouled with jacket material or lead bullet fouling.

The butt stock should be tight, the fore end band and magazine band should be snug, not super tight. The magazine end cap screw shouldn't bottom out hard in its hole in the underside of the barrel either. The magazine tube shouldn't be real tight forward and aft, just barely snug to slightly free with the screws barely backed free. Any binding can be detrimental to shooting well. The fore end wood should be very slightly free also with the screws slightly loosened. Binding can cause problems. If it has a sling, don't pull it tight to shoot.

Once those things are good, it may just want a different weight bullet. Many report either 150's or 170's shoot better, and a certain brand may shoot best. Not simple @ $20/box, but you can try a different weight pretty easily.

Most 94's I've had (probably had a couple dozen of all sort of vintage) would shoot into about 3" or less, a couple have done under 1" for 3 shots, but I wouldn't bet money on it at any particular moment. I've shot a lot of the Hornady 170's, and they shot very well in several guns, but the Speer 170's have a much better BC and seriously beat their tail for longer distance trajectory. I don't think I've shot any factory stuff unless it was in a trade or giveaway priced, so I cant give much info in factory loads other than try a different weight and see if it changes.

Do a bore check with a dial caliper. I've heard of one gun that was in fact a 32 Win Spl but was marked at the factory as a 30WCF (30-30). I also had one gun that had a .310" groove diameter and it never shot very well, but would keep them on a piece of paper that size. Barrels can be had here and there and aren't hard to swap if theres a problem with it.

Good luck, and send a note if you need anything for it. How old is it?

Wait, are you sure its a 30-30 instead of a 32 spl?

[ASH556]

Thanks for the quick feedback guys! The rifle is at home right now, so I don't have a lot of details on it. I know it's not a pre-64 because it has the stupid lever safety plunger thing. No other safeties, though. The hammer clicks twice. The first I presume is a 1/2-cock, safe carry condition and the second is the position from which it fires. The tube holds 7 rounds. The gate is VERY stiff and I find it difficult to load...maybe I just need more practice. Here are some pics I have access to from work (yep, those are grandpa's initials in the stock):

[Malamute]

They've had the lever lock since the beginning of production.

If the serial number is above 2,700,000 its a post 64. The earlier guns were nicer fir and finished, but not the Holy Grail guns that many want them to be.

If its drilled and tapped on the left side of the receiver, I'd put a decent receiver sight on it.

[ASH556]

They've had the lever lock since the beginning of production.

If the serial number is above 2,700,000 its a post 64. The earlier guns were nicer fir and finished, but not the Holy Grail guns that many want them to be.

If its drilled and tapped on the left side of the receiver, I'd put a decent receiver sight on it.

Well how about that! I feel stupid now. I had been told (obviously wrongly) otherwise. I called my wife and got her to check the serial number and its 3,652,5XX so I guess that gives you an idea of its age. I didn't notice any taps on the side of the receiver, but in the picture it looks like they may be there. I'll have to look closer when I get home. The rear sight is a very simple "V." Seems pretty thin and pretty wide too. No marks or anything, just a "V." The front is a brass bead. I assume you're supposed to put the top of the blade/bead somehow centered in the "V" but also even with the tops of the ears?

ETA: checked the serial # on Winchester's site and they indicate it's an early 1971 model.

[GJM]

My two pre-64 94s shoot sub 2 inches at 100 with aperture sights with the Federal 170 grain soft point ammo.

[Malamute]

Well how about that! I feel stupid now. I had been told (obviously wrongly) otherwise. I called my wife and got her to check the serial number and its 3,652,5XX so I guess that gives you an idea of its age. I didn't notice any taps on the side of the receiver, but in the picture it looks like they may be there. I'll have to look closer when I get home. The rear sight is a very simple "V." Seems pretty thin and pretty wide too. No marks or anything, just a "V." The front is a brass bead. I assume you're supposed to put the top of the blade/bead somehow centered in the "V" but also even with the tops of the ears?

Its drilled and tapped for a receiver sight, I can see the holes. either a Williams Foolproof, or Lyman 66 is what I'd suggest. I like the looks of the Lyman, but both are fine.

The sight. It came with a simple U notch rear, with sort of swoopy ears beside the notch. It may have been modified. Keeping the top of the front bead even with the top edge of the rear notch is how they are usually used. If your eyes are good, you may shoot well with it, but a peep rear can help a lot. If you get a receiver peep, get a sight dovetail filler for the rear barrel sight. Remove the old sight with a brass drift and light hammer, from left out to the right as you hold it to shoot. The filler may be slightly tapered also, try it both ways before tapping it in with the brass punch or drift.

I like the square blade front sights, they used to be available as a "Sourdough" made by various people through the years. They have an angled rear face filled with a brass face to help in lower light. Some guys like the newer fiber optic firesights for lower light, but like various pistol sights, they may have down sides in bright light.

Many poo-poo the post 64 guns, but many I've had and heard of shoot very well. They aren't fit and finished quite as well as pre-64's or better yet, pre war guns, but they are still good shooters and using guns. Its a family gun, so enjoy it.

I don't recall the change years, but for a while, they had some stamped internal parts, and roll pins instead of solid pins. Those parts can be changed pretty easily if you want, but it isn't a huge deal.

The stiff to loading can probably be fixed pretty easily. I'll look up some pics to show what needs to be done.

[JHC]

Very helpful info Malamute! Now I have a pretty nice 16" Model 94 I intend to hang onto. I haven't done any good at 100 yds with it but it's just got the leaf rear and with the monovision contact prescript optimized for my pistol shooting I can't get a consistent hold on a reasonably small target at 100 yards.

I have these sights on my Marlin 39 and I've used them on a 1895 Cowboy. They do have Win 94 options. The Williams or Lyman Malamute mentioned are the standard. But the Skinner square front posts are pretty awesome by themselves.

http://www.skinnersights.com/winchester_26.html

[Malamute]

if I'm understanding what you mean, its hard to start rounds through the loading gate (Winchesters name is "spring cover"). Many feel that's normal, and to load them you have to leave each round not quite fully in and push it in with the next round, and you can do it that way, but when they work properly, it isn't a problem to start them in. Older guns, like pre-war, load slick as can be.

The inside edge of the loading gate has a bevel and a rib on it. The front end of the rib and the bevel cam the last round loaded slightly forward and let the gate open and the next round load into the magazine. The bevel is often rough on later guns, and nearly impossible to load more rounds in. Removing the gate and deburring and polishing the machine marks out of the bevel can make them load properly. It isn't hard to do, but care needs to be taken to get the screw in straight when putting it back together. The area that needs polishing is circled,



If you want to clear the chamber and leave the magazine loaded, or single load light loads for small game, closing the action on a round in the magazine can be stiff. Polishing the front edge of the lever, and the rest of the rib on the loading gate can help this. My older guns will push the round on the carrier back into the magazine with no problem, making it very simple to do either of the things mentioned. Newer guns can be slicked up and make them work better. The little bump at the top of the circled area should be cleaned up also. Sometimes a little back and forth help in getting the action closed on an empty chamber with rounds still in the magazine. If the next round comes up with the carrier, it can be pushed back down to leave the chamber empty. I usually carry them chamber empty unless a shot is imminent, or I want to be ready for snakes etc. Round ball loads with 3 grs Unique or Red Dot make great snake loads, and are great for grouse and small game, or shooting in the yard. They make about as much noise as a 22 LR load.

The half cock is relatively safe, but if the gun is dropped on the hammer, it can shear the tip of the trigger or the hammer notch and fire the gun.

Shows the part of the lever than needs to be polished for pushing rounds back in the magazine from action open,