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Thread: Sig P226 DAO or DAK

  1. #11
    To the OP, I vote for the SRT configuration if you must have a Sig.

    From the sound of it, I work for the same agency as Gadfly and I am not a fan of the 229DAK to say the least. I am not alone. Most of us bought G26s when they took away our G19s. Our qualification scores went down on the easy qualification course. Many of our female agents or males with smaller hands have trouble shooting the 229DAK.

    The DAK trigger is an administrator's/lawyer’s delight … heavy and long. The older agents who shot revolvers back in the day don’t seem to mind the trigger but the younger folks seem to prefer striker fired guns. On the plus side, the Sig is accurate as hell and the DAK is smooth (heavy and long with a long reset... but smooth). However, in the modern area of polymer pistols, the 226/229 is a thick boat anchor and not fun to carry concealed.

    I carry the G26 everywhere and the P229 stays locked in my filing cabinet in my office. On quarterly range days the 229 comes out of the office when I qualify and then gets locked it back into the cabinet.
    On scheduled enforcement operations policy requires the P229 to be carried. So it goes in the lockbox in the car and the G26 gets stuffed with G17 mags.

    Word on the street is that the powers that be are opening up the list of personally owned weapons due to the strong dissatisfaction with the P229DAK in the field.
    If that doesn’t happen shortly, I have a P229 with the SRT that I recently purchased on my own dime. I greatly prefer it to the DAK but would dump it in a heartbeat for a M&P or Glock if the policy changes.

  2. #12
    We are diminished
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimichanga View Post
    Our qualification scores went down on the easy qualification course.
    While I'm not trying to defend the DAK, I will say that we saw a very consistent pattern when it came to DAK adopters:
    • Agencies that brought us in to teach a transition program (which I wrote, so I'm biased ) to instructors before guns were issued saw qual scores increase, often significantly.
    • Agencies that said they didn't need us to teach them anything about guns and shooting -- including the agency in question here -- saw qual scores decrease.
    You also have to keep in mind that regardless of what the "official" trigger weight is, the average P229 DAK has a trigger pull around 7.5-7.75 pounds. The guns submitted for testing averaged out at 7.2# and that was before the extra-power mainspring was designed which adds about another half pound to the trigger pull. That's a significant increase over a 5.5 Glock trigger.

    As you said, the guys with time on revolvers shoot the DAK easily. Folks whose experience has been primarily Glock are faced with something completely different and need to be trained properly. As for the grip circumference, prototype "slim grips" were developed in '06 and finally came online last year as part of the "E2" series. They are retrofittable on earlier P229s.

  3. #13
    Is there a difference in the trigger that the agency in question specified on the issued DAK vs a "normal" DAK? I am not fond of the issue pistol but have shot a non issued P229 DAK and the trigger was a larger profile and seemed almost buttery smooth.

    I can attest to the Glock 26 love...I carry mine everyday and now the Sig comes out only when mandated. Almost everyone in my office does the same. On qual days, the G26 scores never fall below 240...the Sigs seem dependent on if the shooter has good karma going that session. I want my old Glock 19 back...

    Any word on when this new list of approved weapons will come out?

  4. #14
    We are diminished
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    The gun you tried probably lacked the "short" trigger that is requested by many LE agencies.

    Train hard & stay safe!
    Todd Louis Green, pistol-training.com
    Speed is the essence of war. Sun Tzu

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Columbus, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaswick View Post
    the trigger was a larger profile
    Maybe your agency is issuing guns with the short trigger option (not to be confused with the short reset trigger)?

    While they make the guns easier to handle for some people, my P226 had the short trigger installed when I got, and I had to swap in a standard trigger to make the gun work right for me. I have large hands, and I had to curl my index finger so much more to manipulate the short trigger that it was difficult for me to get proper leverage on the trigger. No such issue with the standard profile trigger.

    Maybe that accounted for some of why the non-issue gun felt smoother to you?

  6. #16
    I wonder if they would allow me to have the office armorer swap out the trigger for a normal profile one.

    I will have to ask on Monday.

    Anyway, since the Glock 40s apparently failed the trials and lost to Sig and HK to begin with and now with all the Glock Gen 4 problems, I would be surprised to see any new Glocks being authorized. I wonder if HQ is going to allow the P2000 for us investigative types as a primary handgun.

    Maybe the new list will come out with new badges...
    Last edited by Chaswick; 07-30-2011 at 12:49 PM. Reason: .

  7. #17
    Member Gadfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Texas
    I was used to the 96D, so to me, the DAK feels light... That said, I would prefer a Glock over any of our current choices. Our agency is VERY hung up on using the ammo they issue. It is a good load, and I feel safe with it, but it beats the crap out of our pistols. I have heard rumors that the gen 4 Glock was built in response to the issues the .40 Glocks had in our last pistol trial. I hope Glock gets selected when the current contract is up. Most of our office wants them.

    But, that does not make the DAK a bad gun. It just takes a bit of practice. Something most of our agents hate. I will never understand the amount of whining I hear at the range. I try to explain that they are getting paid (well) to come out and shoot. They are given a respectable quality pistol. They are given free ammo, and they can practice as much as they want. All for free. And yet they whine. I try to explain that most folks, and a good percent of cops, had to pay for ammo and training out of their own pockets. Most don't care. Even when you explain to them that the qual course is not about putting holes in paper, it is about practicing to survive a deadly force encounter... Still, most don't care. They shoot 71%, and they are happy.

    I would love to see a wider variety of pistols to select from. One size dose not fit all. We have a 6'7" guy on the large end, down to a 5'2" female tipping the scales at 115 pounds. One gun to fit all is a tall order. I will keep my fingers crossed that some one up the chain will think of this and give us more than a full size 226 or 229 to chose from....

  8. #18
    I hear you brother! I may not be crazy about the Sig, but it really is a decent pistol...and we have a few folks that manage 250 every stinkin time with that gun. I just cant seem to shoot it as well as the Glocks. I truly believe that I am the problem much more than any "flaw" with the gun itself. Having said all that, it's not like anyone is failing quals with it...it's is just a little harder to shoot to potential with...for me. We are lucky here that the majority of the agents really try to get good scores and get pissed at themselves when they dont meet their personal standards even though they qualed with room to spare and are out on the line again to try to improve. I also think the AFTEs are invaluable...more moving and shooting gets you thinking...

    It really is a kick ass job! They just need to pick an agency name and stick to it...I will go broke buying new business cards!

  9. #19
    Member Gadfly's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Texas
    It really is a kick ass job! They just need to pick an agency name and stick to it...I will go broke buying new business cards!
    I have sat in the same office, on the same floor, doing the same type of job, for 13 years, and I have 3 different badges so far... The new name change will make it 4. By the time I retire, it will look like I switched jobs every few years, when I have been in the same damn place.

    I bitch a lot, but it really is a kick ass job. I can't see doing anything else...

  10. #20
    Member fuse's Avatar
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    its on the line, NOVA
    Dying to know where y'all work. It's like office-forum.com all up in here.

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