Big Army and the MHS??

[Jeep]

I heard Army brought some new ideas to the discussion. (what, or good/bad I have no idea)

I may be out in left field but I wondered if it might be a 3 rd burst to "increase lethality". Might help for point shooting on the run from the half hip. lol

A three round burst might be too much to work well, but a two-round burst might actually work with a 9mm--and with M882 ball you probably do want to try to dump a lot of ammo into the other guy.

Personally, though, I'd save the money and spend it on ammo, particularly with the news Sean M reported above. (Of course, the chance that the saved money would actually go to ammo is slight).

[GardoneVT]

I heard Army brought some new ideas to the discussion. (what, or good/bad I have no idea)

I may be out in left field but I wondered if it might be a 3 rd burst to "increase lethality". Might help for point shooting on the run from the half hip. lol

With three round burst, standing near Airman Schmuckatelli at the clearing barrel would be lethal indeed.

[BWT]

As I understand it regular Army units go to "train ups" before deployments anyway.

Beyond that AFAIK it's just qualifications, possible field exercises/trainings, or schools that might involve shooting.

ETA: I'm not in and haven't ever been in the military.

[Jeep]

As I understand it regular Army units go to "train ups" before deployments anyway.

Beyond that AFAIK it's just qualifications, possible field exercises/trainings, or schools that might involve shooting.

ETA: I'm not in and haven't ever been in the military.

I'd hate to rely on last-minute training before a deployment to teach people how to really shoot. First, you don't always get the time. In fact, historically we have very often deployed partly trained units. The results were generally less than good. Second, as we all know, shooting skills take a significant while and quite a bit of ammo to refine. Pre-deployment training should be about polishing skills--not trying to learn them in the first place (or for the first time since original training).

[BWT]

I'd hate to rely on last-minute training before a deployment to teach people how to really shoot. First, you don't always get the time. In fact, historically we have very often deployed partly trained units. The results were generally less than good. Second, as we all know, shooting skills take a significant while and quite a bit of ammo to refine. Pre-deployment training should be about polishing skills--not trying to learn them in the first place (or for the first time since original training).

I didn't mean to imply I agreed with current practices for the Army; simply explained what I believed they currently were.

[JHC]

I didn't mean to imply I agreed with current practices for the Army; simply explained what I believed they currently were.

That's pretty much accurate for my son's Bn. However there are many many tasks to train up on besides marksmanship so even then, there is not "a lot" by our standards. Nothing like my SF friends did on a routine basis all the time.

[5pins]

5pins, you are out in left field.

That’s what I thought, thanks for the confirmation. LOL

[JRB]

I know of Reserve units that quietly pencil-whipped 'expert' record quals for troops that previously shot expert or sharpshooter with their assigned weapon, to save the ammo. That was during FY2014. I expect FY2015 to be worse.

[Jeep]

I know of Reserve units that quietly pencil-whipped 'expert' record quals for troops that previously shot expert or sharpshooter with their assigned weapon, to save the ammo. That was during FY2014. I expect FY2015 to be worse.

I am sorry to hear that. The lack of ammo is shameful, but the moral corruption involved in certifying qualifications that never occurred is even worse. It is nothing new, though. It happened on a consistent basis in Jimmy Carter's Army and goes back far beyond that. And it always seems to have the same genesis: when a subordinate unit complains that it doesn't have the ammo to train and qualify, the leadership above the unit replies that competent leaders would solve the problem. They never actually tell their subordinates to cheat--rather they maintain plausible deniability while essentially giving them no choice but to cheat.

The whole thing is a scandal, but since the scandal is being caused by purposely inadequate defense budgets from an administration that is trying to radically reduce the size and effectiveness of the military while not admitting that goal in public (apparently Leon Panetta accuses the administration of precisely that in his new book) it is never going to get much press.

[Dave J]

I know of Reserve units that quietly pencil-whipped 'expert' record quals for troops that previously shot expert or sharpshooter with their assigned weapon, to save the ammo. That was during FY2014. I expect FY2015 to be worse.

I'm going to call BS on that excuse. The FY14 authorizations for Individual Weapons Qualification I've seen at weren't cut at all. Somebody is covering for failure to adequately plan or forecast. And the lying shitbags doing the false reporting deserve to get fired.

Now, I do know of units that were told to cease travel due to lack of funds and thus couldn't get to the range, but the problem wasn't an ammo shortage. And their leadership didn't falsify the missed quals, either.

Sorry for the rant.