Big Army and the MHS??

[GardoneVT]

My son's unit's deployment last year to a notorious region in RC-East (AFG) was so quiet for so many they ran a lot of ranges to keep the guys from going crazy. (an FSO I know however was busy) I saw a few pics from their M9 range running guys through shooting from laying on the ground on their backs, on their sides . . . a little innovation. One of the pics of a SNCO running his gun with a very modern ISO and high thumbs was a clue. So you never know.

Oh, there is little doubt there are pockets of competence.

On the other side, we have units like the last squadron I was posted at where NCOs went to Iraq with zero handgun time, and a 'get it done downrange' letter from the enlisted Cheif. Wish they did that for the Cultural Sensitivity powerpoints .If thats how Uncle Sam wants to run things, we may as well buy MP7 Airsoft Guns and save the taxpayer some money, as who precisely are we fooling sending troops into harms way with ZERO pistol training?

[Jeep]

My son's unit's deployment last year to a notorious region in RC-East (AFG) was so quiet for so many they ran a lot of ranges to keep the guys from going crazy. (an FSO I know however was busy) I saw a few pics from their M9 range running guys through shooting from laying on the ground on their backs, on their sides . . . a little innovation. One of the pics of a SNCO running his gun with a very modern ISO and high thumbs was a clue. So you never know.

This sounds promising. One of the keys to building a marksmanship culture in the Army is getting the junior officers and enlisted engaged in rifle/pistol craft from the start and giving them enough ammo and training to become good shots. Being able to hit your target rapidly and accurately is one of those basic skills for combat arms guys that have been neglected too often in Army history, but it sounds like some current NCO and officers are determined to prevent that from happening again.

Let us just hope that the Pentagon keeps the ammo flowing--as mentioned above I have grave doubts about that.

[MGW]

The problem is getting actual ammo to train with is outside the power of most senior NCOs and company level officers. You can only capture the attention of troops with dryfire for so long.

Dumbass goes up exponentially as you leave the company level. In their minds PowerPoint solves all.

[Odin Bravo One]

Let us just hope that the Pentagon keeps the ammo flowing--as mentioned above I have grave doubts about that.

Current allocations are below 2001 levels. They have been in a steady decline since 2008.

[Jeep]

Current allocations are below 2001 levels. They have been in a steady decline since 2008.

Below 2001 levels already? I knew it was bad but I didn't realize it was that bad. If this keeps up it is soon going to be the Carter administration, part deux, insofar as readiness is concerned.

Who cares what pistol we have if all they do is stay in the arms rooms looking pretty? (Back then my unit's .45's didn't look pretty, but they almost never fired a round because we didn't have the ammunition budget for it).

[TORCH2J]

Wellll... yes, if they don't forecast their training, don't argue their case and don't justify it to their BN 3 and ammo manager sure... On the other hand, if you know how to write a memo and a training plan and be able to justify it in Army speak, then it's nowhere near the issue that many make it out to be. The reality is that since oh...circa 2003, very few Big Army units that deploy have fired their ammo allocation. As a matter of fact the utilization rates have tended to hover between 50% to 80%.

The problem is getting actual ammo to train with is outside the power of most senior NCOs and company level officers. You can only capture the attention of troops with dryfire for so long.

Dumbass goes up exponentially as you leave the company level. In their minds PowerPoint solves all.

[will_1400]

Oh, there is little doubt there are pockets of competence.

On the other side, we have units like the last squadron I was posted at where NCOs went to Iraq with zero handgun time, and a 'get it done downrange' letter from the enlisted Cheif. Wish they did that for the Cultural Sensitivity powerpoints .If thats how Uncle Sam wants to run things, we may as well buy MP7 Airsoft Guns and save the taxpayer some money, as who precisely are we fooling sending troops into harms way with ZERO pistol training?

Which is why I'm doing what I can to pick up my own personal practice with the pistol. If the military isn't going to get me training, I feel I should seek it out myself. I probably won't need it, but if I do, at least I should be well-ahead of the curve.

[5pins]

I may be out in left field but if, and I think it’s a big if DoD picks a new pistol, it will be something like the 5.7. Low recoil, penetrates body armor, and that will show picks of gel blocks showing how “effective” it is.

[DocGKR]

5pins, you are out in left field.

[JHC]

5pins, you are out in left field.

I heard Army brought some new ideas to the discussion. (what, or good/bad I have no idea)

I may be out in left field but I wondered if it might be a 3 rd burst to "increase lethality". Might help for point shooting on the run from the half hip. lol