P320

[tomr]

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for coming here. I found this over on Sig Forums this morning, "I have decided not to publish that detailed comparison. I like each pistol for what it offers. I have come to clearly prefer the P320 for a number of reasons. Rick here prefers the VP9, and can articulate why just as clearly. I will leave it at that, and say that Rick's doing VERY cool and innovative things with them, but I think the P320 has much, much greater potential for my purposes.

And, I have my purposes.

-Bruce"

Could you elaborate on your purposes?

[Mike C]

My guess is Bianchi Cup. Any bets?

[Bruce Gray]

Hi Bruce,
Thanks for coming here. I found this over on Sig Forums this morning, "I have decided not to publish that detailed comparison. I like each pistol for what it offers. I have come to clearly prefer the P320 for a number of reasons. Rick here prefers the VP9, and can articulate why just as clearly. I will leave it at that, and say that Rick's doing VERY cool and innovative things with them, but I think the P320 has much, much greater potential for my purposes.

And, I have my purposes.

-Bruce"

Could you elaborate on your purposes?

Thanks for asking, and to tomr for speculating on the Cup being involved with this. Yes to that. By the grace of God, I have been blessed to come through my recent health crises and heart surgeries in the best condition I've been in for decades. I am returning to active competition.

However, the cryptic reference to "my purposes" isn't about the personal aspirations of this old shooter. I have disclosed that I and my Crew here at GGI are actively engaged in a cooperative effort with SIG Sauer that is centred on development of the P320 and related stuff. We feel humbled and grateful to be involved, and I believe the results of this effort will be of particular interest to the membership here. The inherent flexibility and adaptability of the P320 modular concept is what makes this project possible and great fun. I don't mean to play the mystery game with my friends here. I promise that I will read you all in on this project when and as I am cleared to do so.

As for my desire to not fulfill my promise to compare these two excellent pistols in detail, I frankly don't wish to jump back into that lobster pot. With our recently evolving relationship with SIG Sauer, I do not wish to ask y'all to take my reputation as an honest man who doesn't troll or B.S. to that high degree of faith. I will say that if SIG made the VP9 instead, our project wouldn't have been considered. The P320 has what we need for "my purposes". (That does sound creepy and arrogant...not intended.) That's no slam on the VP9! The SIG is simply far more adaptable and pliant for what we want to do.

-Bruce

[Bruce Gray]

Welcome Bruce!

Thank you! It is a pleasure to be here.

-Bruce

[JHC]

Thank you! It is a pleasure to be here.

-Bruce

If you ever feel so moved; on this thread or another, I'd value seeing you expound on "ergonomics" as it pertains to pistol design, performance and "feel". IMO there is much confusion on this subject that tilts too far to immediate feel in fondling vs timers and targets. And the former doesn't necessarily assure the latter.

[Mike C]

Thanks for asking, and to tomr for speculating on the Cup being involved with this. Yes to that. By the grace of God, I have been blessed to come through my recent health crises and heart surgeries in the best condition I've been in for decades. I am returning to active competition.

However, the cryptic reference to "my purposes" isn't about the personal aspirations of this old shooter. I have disclosed that I and my Crew here at GGI are actively engaged in a cooperative effort with SIG Sauer that is centred on development of the P320 and related stuff. We feel humbled and grateful to be involved, and I believe the results of this effort will be of particular interest to the membership here. The inherent flexibility and adaptability of the P320 modular concept is what makes this project possible and great fun. I don't mean to play the mystery game with my friends here. I promise that I will read you all in on this project when and as I am cleared to do so.

As for my desire to not fulfill my promise to compare these two excellent pistols in detail, I frankly don't wish to jump back into that lobster pot. With our recently evolving relationship with SIG Sauer, I do not wish to ask y'all to take my reputation as an honest man who doesn't troll or B.S. to that high degree of faith. I will say that if SIG made the VP9 instead, our project wouldn't have been considered. The P320 has what we need for "my purposes". (That does sound creepy and arrogant...not intended.) That's no slam on the VP9! The SIG is simply far more adaptable and pliant for what we want to do.

-Bruce

Welcome aboard Sir. Glad to hear that your health is much improved. It will be very interesting to see what you and your wizards come up with. The new trigger design that you talked about for the P320 seems very promising and is much needed in my opinion. The trigger bite was a real issue for me. On a side note, have you recorded any issues with lockup of any kind with any of the P320 specimens you have on hand or had in the shop?

[Bruce Gray]

"Welcome aboard Sir. Glad to hear that your health is much improved. It will be very interesting to see what you and your wizards come up with. The new trigger design that you talked about for the P320 seems very promising and is much needed in my opinion. The trigger bite was a real issue for me. On a side note, have you recorded any issues with lockup of any kind with any of the P320 specimens you have on hand or had in the shop?" -Mike C

Mike, thank you for your kind thoughts. It's fantastic to be back on so many levels. God is good.

No Sir, the three test bed P320's we have here at GGI as well as others we've handled and worked on have all been fine in regards to lockup, in that they exhibit excellent barrel to slide fits with minimal Z in battery clearance. They are variable within what I feel is a quite good tolerance range. As a result, they shoot exceptionally well.

There are reports of some wear on the ejection port side of the barrel hood. You've noticed that the barrel chamber block has an tapered clearance cut increasing from the locking shoulder to the barrel hood. This cut has the effect of reducing hood bearing area on the ejection port side. One of my recommendations is for this cut to be changed a bit to restore full barrel hood area. I suspect this wear pattern which affects some pistols has been the source of internet complaints about lockup.

I have read of two different online reports in which a P320 was claimed to have blown a case with resulting damage. We have looked at the images presented of these cases and cannot duplicate the conditions which would permit a P320 to fire significantly out of battery, much less to the degree that case failure could result. In one of these cases that was reported on Sigforum.com, the owner presented images suggestive of a lockup / chambering issue that could cause a failure. My reasonable familiarity with the manufacture of these pistols strongly argues against this possibility, though of course anything is possible.

I hope this drift into the P320 realm isn't inappropriate here. Thank you!

-Bruce

[Mike C]

My fault for the derail, your post was enlightening and I wish I had not parted with the gun now that I have heard what you have to say. The issue was probably fixable, it sucks to be young and impatient at times. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I will certainly be watching with great interest.

[ksxdguy]

I am pleased to find this thread. Personally, I've adopted the Glock with a low mounted RMR and suppressor BUIS. However, I'm certainly not locked into one system at the expense of everything else. I briefly owned a P250, liked the concept, but ultimately didn't adapt well to it. When the P320 was introduced I was intrigued enough to buy one and I am simply knocked out by it. Enough that if I can find someone to mount an RMR, the Glocks might be spending all their time in the safe. I hope this is a direction that Sig is headed. The one shown at SHOT tells me that this might be the case.

[mizer67]

I for one will be watching GGI closely for P320 projects.

I know the money in guns these days is in parts, but I for one would like to see GGI start fitting these and give the Accu Shadows a run for their money at ~2/3rds of the price of entry.