Just for clarity are we discussing what the average CCW'er can and will do or an ideal to strive for then work our way down?
Just for clarity are we discussing what the average CCW'er can and will do or an ideal to strive for then work our way down?
Personally, when it comes to CCW tactics, the topics that interest me the most are 1: How to spot that something is about to happen early, and before you're too far behind the curve, 2: How to get out from behind the curve if you fail to spot the threat early enough, 3: De-escalation, 4: How to avoid being targeted in the first place (or getting deselected as I've seen it called), 5: How to interact with responding LE, 6: Making sure that if you have to shoot, that it's justified.
These are in no particular order, just off the top of my head concerns that interest me greatly.
Originally Posted by GJM
Fair question, and my initial question may have been ambiguous.
I would say both. What is the basic level of tactical training that a typical CCW holder should have, and what is an ideal level of training the more motivated CCW holder should strive for?
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Not sure, answers are covering different ground from different angles. FWIW, my answer was kind of 'start with the core, progress beyond it.' I did interpret the thread as focusing on tactics and was trying to limit my answer to that, though I see a lot of others' answering much more expansively.
Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
Lord of the Food Court
http://www.gabewhitetraining.com
I took it as what a ccw/p-fer should strive for.
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AKA: SkyLine1
Jared I think that's a FANTASTIC list and agree.
2 questions:
1) Do you know if that kind of training is available and who do you get it from?
2) Is that kind of training done on a range in live-fire?
I find this difficult to articulate but here goes... From my prospective of student/teacher(no SME by any means) and from experience with victims, witnesses and perps in a legal context, whether it is part of mindset or some other category, the average CCW student/holder needs to understand the "reality" of a violent assault. Most of the people in the above contexts I encounter don't have any concept of the likelihood of being assaulted (this can never happen to me coupled with "why would anyone want to hurt me"), the speed it happens (see Givens: "itallhappenedsofasthecameoutofnowhereIdidntgetago odlookathim"), and the unrealistic nature of their expectation of what they could or would do in the event it happened-mainly going to get things and the leisurely pace that they think it will all happen.
One other area is dispelling the magic talisman effect that CCW imparts to some people-that they are rendered safe by carrying a gun or worse "I just want it for my car". They are then fully intoxicated with the idea that they can go violate Farnham's Rule of 3 Stupids with impunity.
My experience with some of my customers that truly qualify as apex predators, is that they really couldn't care less that Joe Public might be carrying, and are only moderately concerned about the average police officer being armed. The average street criminal I have dealt with cares that Joe Public might be carrying in the abstract, but in the moment are more concerned with what appears to be an easy take.
Last edited by Ray Keith; 10-09-2014 at 05:41 PM.
SouthNarc,
1) I've heard you recommended numerous times for large parts of what I mentioned, as well as some others.
2) I think some of it would be, but an awful lot of it likely wouldn't.
I LOVE shooting. I'm a gun gamer as well as being interested in the defensive aspect of firearms use. Those things I mentioned, they aren't something that I believe can be measured with a timer and a scoresheet. So, as much as I love my USPSA shooting, I do believe there's more than that to a CCW/ Home Owner looking to defend him/herself.
I'll play. I claim no expertise in the matter, just some doode that likes to shoot guns and talk about shooting guns. I am certainly open to suggestions if I'm full of crap. I think that the average CCW'er needs to start with a solid, broad basis in general education. Then move on to specific tactics (low light, etc.) and then finally focused marksmanship (AFHF).
So with that in mind I'll lay out the intended training I've set up for my wife and I. She is not a shooter yet, but has shown interest.
Gen Ed (In approximate order)
1. Local CHL class.
2. Kathy Jackson's Cornered Cat class.
3. Tom Given's Combative Pistol I.
4. Local First Responder/CERT class.
5. Massad Ayoob MAG-20 or -40.
6. SouthNarc ECQC.
7. Appleseed Project (basic rifle course)
Beyond that we can start focusing on more specific tactics. (now in no particular order)
- SouthNarc AMIS, VCAST, EWO (or similar)
- Andrew Branca Laws of Self Defense (or similar)
- General carbine class (PSC or similar)
- Medical/GSW training (Dark Angel Medical or similar)
Last edited by David S.; 10-09-2014 at 07:03 PM.
As a new shooter with 0 experience, I've been reading this thread with interest.
It struck me though, that the above list made a lot of sense, and these topics really resonated with me.
A Club near me offers a 'Personal Protection in the home" course my wife and I have been kicking around going to. I'll go re read the syllabus, feeling more informed for having ya'll share your thoughts here.
Genuine thanks for doing so.
Rich in Tampa
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