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Thread: How Not To Conduct A Traffic Stop

  1. #1
    Member Sparks2112's Avatar
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    How Not To Conduct A Traffic Stop

    First time poster long time watcher. I'm not sure if this is the proper place for this video but I think it does really illustrate what one should NOT do as a LEO. My favorite quote by the lead officer "My partner has my back and will lie in a report so I can commit cold blooded murder, execution style."

    Anyway video is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP...ature=youtu.be

    Discussion on OFCC's web forum is here http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54153

  2. #2
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Yes...that would be a textbook example of someone who doesn't need to be on the road. His tactics were terrible and apparently instead of blaming himself for handling things poorly up to that point he instead decided to take it out on the guy with the permit. I'm willing to bet that this wasn't the first time he used the Judge Dredd routine, but probably didn't have enough proactive supervision in the past to catch him at it and sort him out.

    A firing and criminal charges are appropriate here.

    Gentle reminder: This will not be allowed to become a generalized LE bashing thread. We don't do that sort of thing here on PF.com. Please keep the discussion about this incident.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 07-21-2011 at 08:12 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks2112 View Post
    My favorite quote by the lead officer "My partner has my back and will lie in a report so I can commit cold blooded murder, execution style."
    That is not the quote. What he says is, "And he would have been a nice witness as I executed you because you're stupid." I did not take it to mean he could shoot someone for failure to inform, but rather that the officer is trying to convince himself that (a) he saw a bulge and (b) he knew the bulge was a gun and thus if he had shot the guy, it would have been justified and over before the partner could have done anything more than watched.

    What I see here is an officer who realizes he created a problem (instructing the driver not to move and not to speak for five minutes) and is now suffering from cognitive dissonance. Unable to admit to himself that he caused the conflict, he instead begins to remember things happening in a different way than we saw on the dashcam. He's blaming the driver when he himself is the one who bullied the driver into staying quiet when the driver made repeated attempts to inform.

    The other thing I see, of course, is a violation of the so-called "Rule of Stupid" by the driver:
    1. Don't do stupid things,
    2. Don't hang around with stupid people, and
    3. Don't go to stupid places.
    My guess is that if our friendly neighborhood ex-taxi driver hadn't been in what is presumably a known prostitution area, with a prostitute and her pimp, he probably would not have experienced any interaction with law enforcement officers that evening. Hanging out with people engaged in criminal activity paints you into a corner and it is unreasonable to expect a LEO to roll up and assume you're just a nice guy doing a favor for a pretty girl...

  4. #4
    Member Sparks2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Gentle reminder: This will not be allowed to become a generalized LE bashing thread. We don't do that sort of thing here on PF.com.
    I'm going through the hiring process right now for a depart not too far from there, so you're not gonna hear me cop bashing.

  5. #5
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    assume you're just a nice guy doing a favor for a pretty girl...
    The video is fuzzy so it's hard to say...but I'll go out on a limb here and now and say that the girl probably wasn't pretty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks2112 View Post
    I'm going through the hiring process right now for a depart not too far from there, so you're not gonna hear me cop bashing.
    That's meant more as a generalized warning. It's easy for tempers to flare when presented with such an egregious series of actions by a particularly dim law enforcement officer. We just don't want to see the chuckleheads in the video used to smear the hundreds of thousands of good police officers who managed to get through a shift without threatening criminal violence against anyone.

  6. #6
    Member Sparks2112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    That is not the quote. What he says is, "And he would have been a nice witness as I executed you because you're stupid." I did not take it to mean he could shoot someone for failure to inform, but rather that the officer is trying to convince himself that (a) he saw a bulge and (b) he knew the bulge was a gun and thus if he had shot the guy, it would have been justified and over before the partner could have done anything more than watched.

    What I see here is an officer who realizes he created a problem (instructing the driver not to move and not to speak for five minutes) and is now suffering from cognitive dissonance. Unable to admit to himself that he caused the conflict, he instead begins to remember things happening in a different way than we saw on the dashcam. He's blaming the driver when he himself is the one who bullied the driver into staying quiet when the driver made repeated attempts to inform.

    The other thing I see, of course, is a violation of the so-called "Rule of Stupid" by the driver:
    1. Don't do stupid things,
    2. Don't hang around with stupid people, and
    3. Don't go to stupid places.
    My guess is that if our friendly neighborhood ex-taxi driver hadn't been in what is presumably a known prostitution area, with a prostitute and her pimp, he probably would not have experienced any interaction with law enforcement officers that evening. Hanging out with people engaged in criminal activity paints you into a corner and it is unreasonable to expect a LEO to roll up and assume you're just a nice guy doing a favor for a pretty girl...
    Sorry I was paraphrasing, hence italics but I should have been clearer. And I agree that the driver did all sorts of stupid things. I don't think he did anything stupid enough to deserve death threats from a LEO. It's kind of the theory that if a woman goes dressed into a bar provacatively does anything negative that happens to her afterwards become her fault?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks2112 View Post
    Sorry I was paraphrasing, hence italics but I should have been clearer.
    FWIW: Indirect quotes (paraphrase/summary) don't normally get quotation marks.

  8. #8
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks2112 View Post
    I don't think he did anything stupid enough to deserve death threats from a LEO.
    He didn't. The officer realized the magnitude of his mistake and instead of placing the blame on himself for bad tactics and learning a permanent lesson, he instead decided to take it out on the guy with the permit.

    The guy with the permit was indeed very unwise to be hanging around with a pimp and prostitute. The scene the cops rolled up on was ample cause for them to conduct at least a Terry stop. None of that justifies the officer's outrageous behavior.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks2112 View Post
    It's kind of the theory that if a woman goes dressed into a bar provacatively does anything negative that happens to her afterwards become her fault?
    No, it's really not like that. I never said it was the driver's fault. But by the choices he made he put himself into the situation which could otherwise have been avoided. That takes nothing away from the officer's responsibility. It's merely a fact and another example of how poor lifestyle decisions can spiral into unfortunate consequences.

  10. #10
    very frustrating to watch

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