Push v. Pull

[dbateman]

Ok I see a lot of you guys are pushing with your support hand, I tend to... Not do that.

I was taught to do nothing other than support the gun with my non firing hand I don't really "stretch the gun" I pull the gun into my shoulder with my firing hand.
With varied pressure depending on what I am doing.

That being said I'll be at the range shooting 308 and 300wm in sporter weight rifles day after tomorrow so I will play around with the pulling with my support hand.

[John Hearne]

Ok I see a lot of you guys are pushing with your support hand, I tend to... Not do that....I was taught to do nothing other than support the gun with my non firing hand I don't really "stretch the gun" I pull the gun into my shoulder with my firing hand.

This is "classic" rifle doctrine going back a long time. Probably more important when shooting from prone at 300+ yards.

The ability to drive the weapon from target to target and to deliver multiple rapid hits while on your feet within 100 yards is where these alternative techniques shine.

[LHS]

I am trying to use a .300 WM, 9.3x62 and 20 gauge Benelli for what I used to shoot a .375, .416, 12 gauge and .45-70.

Eye doc says to minimize heavy recoiling rifles -- unless the bear is coming, in which case don't worry about it.

I grew up using push/pull with shotguns, but in recent years I've applied it to heavy rifles as well. It makes my 9.3x62mm positively pleasant, and it made some truly big bores (.500 NE, .505 Gibbs and .600 NE) shootable, barely. I've used it with 5.56, 5.45 and 7.62x39mm carbines in competition with good results. It's not a universal technique (I wouldn't try using it on long distance shooting, for instance), but for <100 yards, I prefer it.

[dbateman]

This is "classic" rifle doctrine going back a long time. Probably more important when shooting from prone at 300+ yards.

The ability to drive the weapon from target to target and to deliver multiple rapid hits while on your feet within 100 yards is where these alternative techniques shine.

It is yeah, but it works so I stuck with it.
I tend to shoot pretty fast anyway, but that didn't happen by accident.

So I was playing with the push pull thing and it's going to need some refining, I'm not sold on the idea but I want to spend a bit more time working on it.

[Surf]

It is yeah, but it works so I stuck with it.
I tend to shoot pretty fast anyway, but that didn't happen by accident.

So I was playing with the push pull thing and it's going to need some refining, I'm not sold on the idea but I want to spend a bit more time working on it.

Hey Dave, as mentioned your original technique is indeed tried and true. It is a technique that has been around for many years and as an example is still taught as the most preferred technique by the NRA LE instructor side of the house to this day. They are slowly considering other methodology but the the official stance is what you have been taught. Change comes very slowly and as much as I am a supporter, they are way behind the times. More so we need to be able to understand context of speed and accuracy using different techniques and what is the perceived and / or actual advantages. As a simple example your concept of "pretty fast" may not match with someone else and then we need to take into account the accuracy that we get out of whatever speed we attempt to work at.

Again the push / pull technique has diminishing returns on a lighter recoiling rifle in relation to how fast we can recover between shots. Heavier caliber rifles are a different animal when it comes to speed. Lets face it, not many people shoot heavier recoiling rifles at a pace that we cannot easily recover from while using a classic rifle hold technique. I can pretty much guarantee you that I could let you shoot a heavier recoiling carbine with your own technique, then spend about 10 mins teaching you the correct push / pull technique and the results would more than likely be night and day.

I am glad that you are still open to learning, but I will state that just reading about what I, or others are talking about may not translate into you attempting to self learn this. Keep an open mind but still understand that no one is the same, so results may vary.

[dbateman]

Hey Dave, as mentioned your original technique is indeed tried and true. It is a technique that has been around for many years and as an example is still taught as the most preferred technique by the NRA LE instructor side of the house to this day. They are slowly considering other methodology but the the official stance is what you have been taught. Change comes very slowly and as much as I am a supporter, they are way behind the times. More so we need to be able to understand context of speed and accuracy using different techniques and what is the perceived and / or actual advantages. As a simple example your concept of "pretty fast" may not match with someone else and then we need to take into account the accuracy that we get out of whatever speed we attempt to work at.

Again the push / pull technique has diminishing returns on a lighter recoiling rifle in relation to how fast we can recover between shots. Heavier caliber rifles are a different animal when it comes to speed. Lets face it, not many people shoot heavier recoiling rifles at a pace that we cannot easily recover from while using a classic rifle hold technique. I can pretty much guarantee you that I could let you shoot a heavier recoiling carbine with your own technique, then spend about 10 mins teaching you the correct push / pull technique and the results would more than likely be night and day.

I am glad that you are still open to learning, but I will state that just reading about what I, or others are talking about may not translate into you attempting to self learn this. Keep an open mind but still understand that no one is the same, so results may vary.

Hi Surf sorry for the delayed reply I was away for work and had patchy internet.

I will try and give you some background as to where I am coming from, my main area of shooting is precision rifle which is why I shoot the way I do.
To be effective I need to be able to watch whats happening as it's happening. IE see the result of my shot make a correction if needed and fire again.

Now thats all well and good at extended range but it's slow, so when I have multiple targets at close range I typical don't wait to see the result of my shot I call my shots and move on to the next target.

Speed is a very subjective thing, compared to a few people on P-F I look pretty slow. That being said I have spent a fair amount of time working on shooting accurately enough fast.

The main thing that pricked my ears with the push pull technique is I kind of read it as you may be able to drive the rifle from target to target quicker ?
I'm not so much interested in the recoil management point of view, altho that would be a bonus.

I think you're right it would be a lot easier to learn it by having someone show you and correct you in person vs reading about it, none the less I will continue to play around with it.